Ohio CCW holder uses firearm in self defense VIDEO

[JOHNSMITH]

Is this the same one already running at http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...nse-video.html?

aw poop. Yes, you are correct. Darn, I didn't find that one when I looked.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Harryball]

Bad guys trying to get you....Putting two .45s in the gut.....PRICELESS

[buckeye .45]

From my understanding of the law here, looks like a clean SD shoot. I am glad that the Prosecutor didn't file any charges either, as it was clearly self defense.

And all the city politicians say that we don't need any more guns in the cities, here is a perfect example of why everyday people need to carry weapons in the cities here for defense.

BG got shot, and is going to get charges filed on him, guess that's the price you pay for being a crackhead.

[Backnblack]

BG#1 is lucky he's not in a bodybag.....

[guardmt]

You guys think he was using FMJs?

[paaiyan]

He said in the thread that due to range practice and running a round short on his carry ammo, the BG got hit with one FMJ and one Pow R Ball.

[archer51]

According to the Ohio Carry forum, Ohio state law precludes the possibility of a civil suit, so he shouldn't have to worry about that. Besides, pretty much any judge with half a brain would throw that suit right out the window. It was obvious self-defense and there's no criminal or civil culpability.

The problem is trying to find a judge who has at least half a brain!

[paaiyan]

Point conceded.

[shockwave]

No need to quarterback this one - the videotape tells the tale. On the Ohio CC site, the defender clarifies that he fired from inside his vehicle, which makes it a righteous shoot under Castle Doctrine law.

Things to consider:
1. Defender left gun in vehicle console while shopping in convenience store (regrets that move).
2. Defender very glad pistol was in condition 1 - no chance to rack the slide.
3. Commenter on the Ohio site says he's "glad I'm now studying unarmed combatives."
4. Actual shooting distance is arm's length.
5. Video and defender's testimony shows a classic "victim interview" prior to the attack.

Apart from having the gun on his person prior to the attack, there isn't much he could have done better. Depending on his H2H skills, he might have been able to dispatch the first assailant and drive off, but once the second guy jumps in, it's 2-on-1. Notice how once he opens fire, the confederate runs for it.

[Bark'n]

It's really hard to second guess how Mr. Fox (good guy) interacted with Brandon Turner (assailant #1) while standing outside his car pumping gas prior to the assault. As Mr. Fox stated (on the Ohio gun forum link provided) "red flags were popping up" during the conversation, but how does one get someone to back away while at the same time trying to keep a bad situation from getting worse.

In over thirty years of EMS I've had to use verbal communication skills hundreds of time to try and diffuse situations and keep them from getting more heated. Off duty I've also had many opportunities to deal with annoying drunks and somewhat aggressive people getting in my face or interacting with me who I didn't know from Adam. It's always a very fluid and dynamic situation. You're always trying not to be aggressive or trying not to make things worse or blow up. The problem is, how to deal with someone who is being passively resistant to your wishes to leave you alone. At what point do you stop the "polite" verbal banter, and issue the blunt command/challenge to back off, which you know is going to cause the other person to commence fighting. I've had to do that on more than one occasion.

The problem is the situation is so fluent, and so many things are running through your mind at a rapid pace. You're trying to think tactically and stay ahead of the curve while formulating a response to his possible actions and at the same time, keep trying to deescalate a situation that just seems to keep getting worse.

It's easy to sit back here and point out everything you think he did wrong and how you would never have done this or that. Well, that's all well and good, and easy to do from the detached point of reflection as sitting in your living room on your computer. Out on the street, it's just not that cut and dry.

Certainly in this situation, OC spray may have been a good solution to affirm your message to move along and that the conversation is over. Again, the attack had not taken place yet, and no one had displayed any weapons. That is a perfect situation for a less-lethal option such as pepper spray.

I think Mr. Fox handled himself very well, all things considered. He knew he was in a bad situation and no doubt was frantically trying to find a way out of it safely, and without getting into an actual fight.

The video provides and excellent learning tool which gives us all an opportunity to put ourselves in his place and strategize as to how we would extricate ourselves from the same situation. The LEO's commentary in the voice over explanation of events was excellent.

It also very vividly demonstrates how a simple unarmed assault which would not warrant a lethal force response, quickly escalates into a justifiable lethal force threat with the addition of a second assailant piling on and attempting to overwhelm you.

It's important to note, that based on the size, age and physical condition of Mr. Fox (defender) and Brandon Turner (assailant #1), had no weapons been introduced by the assailant, and had Billy Blackburn Jr. (assailant #2) never entered into the mix, I don't see how Mr. Fox (defender) would have been justified in shooting Turner.

To me, this is a clear situation where lethal force would not be justified at first, but shows how a "disparity of force" can develop at any time and change the dynamics of the situation where lethal force eventually does become warranted. And as you can see, it can happen very quickly.

It is also important to note, that the entire event was pretty effectively recorded on video. Had Mr. Fox shot down Turner when it was only a one-on-one unarmed scuffle, I think Mr. Fox would have a hard time explaining himself. And he likely had no idea it was all being recorded. I certainly doubt he would have been thinking about it in the heat of the moment anyway. Just my opinion though, YMMV.

[Guantes]

Deescalation and contact breaking must incorporate subtle but positive preparation for escalation, should it come.

[SIGguy229]

You guys think he was using FMJs?

Looked like he carried +1 and no warning shots...!

[Knightrider]

Ahh, the old trick that BGs play. The BG claims that your one person, the victim gets guilted and let their guard down then the BG make their move. That has happen to me once in my life time and I was smart enough to not let my guard down and the BG just walked away to find another mark.

I would NEVER had let a person that I do not know get that close to me..... even more so if that person thinks that i am/was someone else.

[JOHNSMITH]

You guys think he was using FMJs?

I think he mentioned he was Pow r ball rounds.

[Bark'n]

I would NEVER had let a person that I do not know get that close to me..... even more so if that person thinks that i am/was someone else.

Just how would you do that, specifically? That's what I was trying to point out above in Post #40. It appeared Mr. Fox did try to back away in the video. He even got inside his car to get away from the assailant. It was at that time the assailant pounced. And almost immediately after that, thug #2 joined in the fray.

Do you turn around and just run away leaving your car around to get pilfered, or do you physically go hands on with him when he hasn't touched you or made any definite threat.

The bad guy in this case apparently ignored Mr. Fox's wishes to exit the conversation. He was passively resisting Fox's suggestions to go away. So specifically what would you do to end the situation and keep him from encroaching on you. If you lay hands on him, the video surveillance could be interpreted as to show you as the aggressor.

On the street, in real life, things aren't quite as easy as we would like to think it's going to be while sitting here discussing it as a "hypothetical" situation.

It's easy to post, I wouldn't do this or I wouldn't do that. But without any specific examples of how, no one gets to benefit from your post.