Bad: Shooting at fleeing suspect

MitchellCT talks about this type of thing as reason to get training in WHEN to use lethal force.

dwpmusic‎, a new member here, is rethinking his decision to carry a firearm because of the legal battles that ensue when a firearm is used in defense of self, or in this case, in defense of property.

Most of the charges we see against permitted carriers of firearms tend to be like >>>This Story<<<.

The permit to carry weapons (if required) is not a badge, it does not give you super hero powers, it does not give you license to apprehend criminals or suspects.

In some states, you CAN defend your property. In some states, you CAN hold a felonious criminal for arrest. But even in those states, even the police don't often shoot at fleeing suspects, even those who are armed, unless they are shooting back while fleeing...

Use your weapon to protect your life and the life of your loved ones. If your fear of death or grave bodily injury is reasonable, you will most likely not suffer legal ramifications. Stuff can be replaced/repaired.

I will add (or reinforce) this point - just because you can doesn't mean you need to. For example, if I see someone breaking into my truck in my yard or running from my house with an armful of stuff they just stole, perhaps I can shoot them. But do I need to? Is there anything in there worth taking a man's life and all of the problems (legal and psychological) that it entails?

To me the answer to that is no. All of my stuff is replacable. The only things in my house that cannot be replaced are my wife, my son, and our cat. Panasonic will make more TVs. Gateway or HP will make me a fine computer if I need it. Home Depot is full of people that can't wait for the opportunity to sell me more tools. It sucks and makes you feel violated and angry but shooting the guy as he is leaving won't help.

Now if they break into the house while me, my wife or our son is home, this story has a vastly different ending.

yep. bad shoot.

With adrenaline, fear etc going strong during an incident, it is probably hard to make the best judgments. But this seems like a poor choice to shoot when the BG is running away from you. Hard to justify that. And as SC Tiger expressed, I don't want blood on my hands for a B&E and the threat retreating. Not worth the difficulties ahead.

I have mixed feelings.
Shooting at a fleeing person - Bad.
Car thief taking a .380 round or two for their efforts - Good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hayzor

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Car thief taking a .380 round or two for their efforts - Good.

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mebbe, but not worth felony jail time, no way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SC Tiger

I will add (or reinforce) this point - just because you can doesn't mean you need to. For example, if I see someone breaking into my truck in my yard or running from my house with an armful of stuff they just stole, perhaps I can shoot them. But do I need to? Is there anything in there worth taking a man's life and all of the problems (legal and psychological) that it entails?

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I feel it is sort of a grey area. In my state I would be protected by law if I did that. I think I would probably do it assuming I had a clear shot and there was no chance of me accidentally hitting somebody else. The reason has little to do with recovery of my stuff. I don't think there is any property in my home that I can say is worth a man's life. But, I feel if more people took this course of action, it would serve as a deterrent to future criminals. I've pointed out before, most criminals are not afraid of jail. Most of them have been there before several times and have little to lose by going. But they are afraid of dying. That is the whole purpose behind our capital punishment system. Some people think it is for revenge, but in reality it is there to save lives.

If the man is fleeing with my property and I shoot him in the back with a single shot, there is (I'm guessing) a 75% chance or more that he will survive it. You can bet he and everyone he knows will think twice about burglarizing someone's home after that.

Then when we get to the question of what a man's life is worth. Well, it is hard to place a dollar value on any life. But when dealing with crooks like these they are pretty much a parasite on society adding no benefit. The best thing they do is give employment to police officers, prisons guards, and lawyers. I'd say society can probably get along just fine without him if he dies.

It's really easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment and let anger control your decisions. As law abiding citizens it is incumbent on us to be in control of our emotions, especially during times of extreme stress when you feel your life is in danger.

Your general level of maturity has a lot to do with how you will behave in such situations. But also the amount of knowledge you possess surrounding the use of deadly force plays no small role in it either.

Anyone who has been around these kinds of discussions have heard the phrase, "You must assume or be cognizant that there's a lawyer attached to each bullet that leaves your gun!"

But in the excitement and the heat of the moment, too many people let their emotions get the best of them. It's sad that otherwise good people open themselves up for such problems when it is clear the immediate threat of immanent danger has passed when the bad guy... cowards that they are, flee and try to run away when they see you are not an easy target.

Stay armed, and stay safe... but keep your wits about you and your emotions in check.

Good post oakchas. :hand56:

The first shot was in SD,but he missed at what couldn't have been more than about 10 feet,If your gonna carry a weapon for SD then train with your weapon to where you can hit what your shooting at.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adric22

I feel it is sort of a grey area. In my state I would be protected by law if I did that. I think I would probably do it assuming I had a clear shot and there was no chance of me accidentally hitting somebody else. The reason has little to do with recovery of my stuff. I don't think there is any property in my home that I can say is worth a man's life. But, I feel if more people took this course of action, it would serve as a deterrent to future criminals. I've pointed out before, most criminals are not afraid of jail. Most of them have been there before several times and have little to lose by going. But they are afraid of dying. That is the whole purpose behind our capital punishment system. Some people think it is for revenge, but in reality it is there to save lives.

If the man is fleeing with my property and I shoot him in the back with a single shot, there is (I'm guessing) a 75% chance or more that he will survive it. You can bet he and everyone he knows will think twice about burglarizing someone's home after that.

Then when we get to the question of what a man's life is worth. Well, it is hard to place a dollar value on any life. But when dealing with crooks like these they are pretty much a parasite on society adding no benefit. The best thing they do is give employment to police officers, prisons guards, and lawyers. I'd say society can probably get along just fine without him if he dies.

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OMG, your telling us that in Texas you can shoot a fleeing suspect??????? And that you would shoot him to deter others. I know in texas you can defend property, but what you are saying is pure lunacy....

I agree with the "just because you can doesn't mean you should" sentiment.

Even if I could shoot to defend property, I wouldn't. If that individual does die I get to spend the rest of my life knowing I killed a human being over a television or computer, or phone or whatever. That kind of baggage is just not worth it.

I've seen veterans who have killed in combat for much more legitimate reasons who've never been able to get over what they've done. I don't even want to fathom the weight of killing someone for something so trivial.

I'm all for the death penalty for heinous crimes against human life but for stuff? No.

Not to mention the fact that this kid was 19. The age bracket for these kinds of crimes is often pretty young and some of these kids don't look their age and some do grow out of that stupidity.

Again, I don't even want to fathom the weight of finding out I gunned down some 15 or 16 y/o kid because he was taking my camera on a bet.

You really want to deter this kind of crime? Bring back public beatings, whippings and force FULL restitution (you steal my television you have to buy a new one). But we digress.

This guy went too far.

Outside of the first shot, I just can't see anything making a justifiable shot after that. Granted, I may have kept firing too, but I doubt I would have missed the first time, or if I had, the second shot would have been made before the BG could turn around.

The only reason I may have kept firing is my years spent hunting. I've learned to shoot at, and kill, moving targets so I can have something tasty to eat.

My worst fear in a SD scenario is that I don't control my hunting instincts in a situation like this.

Maybe this should be another thread but here goes.

What if the person is not stealing your T.V.,or computer, or cash. or valuables but is stealing your guns or your prescription drugs. Think about the posibilities....

If I saw the BG had a firearm, I'd consider that a totally different scenario. The threat level goes up a lot more when they can reach out and cause major damage. It's not safe to assume the firearms are unloaded. The only safe assumption is that they are armed and dangerous.

When I read the story, this was the paragraph that jumped out at me.

“There may be a legal argument that Redd had a right to defend himself with the man brandishing a screwdriver, which can be a deadly weapon, [but] by his own statement, Redd admitted the man was fleeing when he continued to fire on him,” Hollis said.


Nothing like opening your mouth and giving the police the evidence they need to charge you. The shooting wasn't justified under the circumstances, but Mr Redd didn't help himself by talking to the police either.