Man Fatally Shot By Police Was Carrying Toy Rifle

[afojc]

LEOs were justified, could have been a real weapon, they felt their lives were in jeopardy

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Magnum]

Ok without getting in trouble with the Mods, please tell me of the Innocent. A weapon directed towards the PD or CCWer, would be reason to take the BG out. How is that killing innocent people? Like I said earlier, there is bad in all occupations, but this guy wasnt an innocent. Sorry man, just not the way I see it.

I'm sorry too man, I was talking about the killing of a 70 year old lady waving a screwdriver or cell phone, the killing of an innocent non-armed bridegroom at his own reception party kind of thing. Forget it, we're talking about two different things altogether and it's getting beyond ridiculous. Before anymore insults are thrown around out of misunderstandings I'm butting out now.

[Hoganbeg]

In California, some years back, in an effort to save money, the state released onto the streets a large number of mentally ill persons because as long as they were on their meds they were pretty normal. Of course as soon as they were back in the world and unsupervised very many went off of their meds because they felt fine. This became a large portion of the street people problem in the state.

As for those who think a broomstick is not a deadly weapon, I know quite a few who could kill with one. Considering the enhanced reach it would give the wielder, I think it would possibly be in less time than the famous Tueller drill. Just for starters, consider a crushed larynx, fractured skull (I'm thinking temple), fractured neck. If it breaks, now I have a sharpened stick with which to attack your vital organs.

[ArkhmAsylm]

Agreed, very sad. Some blame falls on whoever allowed a mentally disabled person to roam the streets with a replica of a weapon.

As far as LE, I would have to be there to make a call one way or the other.

I'd say more than some blame would fall to the fella's family. They know he's got the mind of a child, don't let him make the mistakes of a child - particularly with a replica firearm...in public. The family bears the brunt of the blame, IMO.

Maybe more ought to be done about allowing non-lethal replicas to look so realistic? I don't think that an orange muzzle tip is sufficient.

[Guantes]

I almost killed a man over a realistic looking toy.

[SIGguy229]

What armed attacker? I was talking about the non-armed. Why are you so dense? What question didn't I answer?

Dude, you really need to dial it back.

First of all, none of us were there (in the OPs story)

Second, you're assuming a lot--all we have to discuss is what was in the news report--I'm sure there are more details, but right now we don't have them. And you know what happens when you assume, right?

Third, according to the news report, it was reported an individual was carrying a rifle...we don't know if it was a Nerf rifle, or a replica rifle...you weren't at the scene, neither was I.

Fourth, insults won't get you far here...because right now you come across (to me) as unstable. You give the impression that everyone carries a gun to kill someone, thus that is why you carry a gun with you all of the time...so taking it a step further, what makes you different than the "rest of us"?

No one here advocates the killing of an unarmed person--however, there are those who cannot defend themselves from an attacker of disproportionate size...think, 5'2", 120lbs woman vs 5'10", 220lbs man.

Seriously, you really need to calm down and think before you type. If you're typing cranky, I recommend you take a nap.

[retsupt99]

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough.

...and bullet-proof, too!

The cops had no other choice at that moment.

[WHEC724]

What armed attacker? I was talking about the non-armed. Why are you so dense? What question didn't I answer?

Magnum, we generally treat each other with more dignity when discussing different points of view here.

When I first joined DC, I felt that I knew my way around firearms and that there was more knowledge that I could share than receive. I was very, very wrong. There are a lot of seasoned folks here, many with battlefield experience, there are hundreds of years of LEO experience here (no slam on the ol' timers ;-), as well as civilians who have dedicated large blocks of time and money to be trained by the very best.

If you already know it all, then I'm not sure why you're just hanging out and calling people 'dense'. It's a poor instructional tactic, if that is what you're trying to do. If you're not confident that you know it all, the beginning of learning, starts with listening. You may not agree with everything you've heard, but that will not necessarily mean that it's wrong.

[Dadsnugun]

[QUOTE=Magnum;2021822]

If the gun clears leather, then yes its COM..
I was talking about un-armed people, innocent people.

This story was about someone who was displaying an object (a toy rifle) that could be (and evidently was) mistaken for a real gun. I understood your response to be directed towards people displaying things which could be construed as, or are deadly weapons in their own right. My point was simply that it is a perpetuation of a myth to believe one should shoot to wound/shoot to disarm an attacker whom one reasonably believes to be armed with a deadly weapon, and that the perpetuation of that myth, in and of itself, has the power to get innocent people killed. A perceived gun should be treated as a real gun until it is absolutely proven to be harmless.

[Harryball]

[QUOTE=Dadsnugun;2022263]

This story was about someone who was displaying an object (a toy rifle) that could be (and evidently was) mistaken for a real gun. I understood your response to be directed towards people displaying things which could be construed as, or are deadly weapons in their own right. My point was simply that it is a perpetuation of a myth to believe one should shoot to wound/shoot to disarm an attacker whom one reasonably believes to be armed with a deadly weapon, and that the perpetuation of that myth, in and of itself, has the power to get innocent people killed. A perceived gun should be treated as a real gun until it is absolutely proven to be harmless.

I wasnt talking about innocent people, The OP, the guy had a toy gun. They didnt know until it was to late. If you are going to pull a gun (toy gun) on police it will not go well for you. Im not sure when innocent people came into the discussion, but Im sure it not SOP for PDs to go around shooting unarmed people. Im not saying its never happened, Im saying its not there SOP....

[Dadsnugun]

Harryball...don't know what's going on with the quotation display...I was trying to quote Magnum's post #28.

I believe you and I are essentially on the same page..

[Harryball]

Harryball...don't know what's going on with the quotation display...I was trying to quote Magnum's post #28.

I believe you and I are essentially on the same page..

No worries, I thought it was a bit weird....Stuff happens LOL

[JoJoGunn]

I have a very good friend in Jacksonville, FL who is a police officer and he does not live to shoot innocent unarmed people. I don't know why all of a sudden when there are few facts in a case, the police are now vengeful killers. Before passing any judgement, all of the facts must come to light and a thorough investigation should take place.

Here in Huntington, WV last year we had three fatal shootings involving police. One K9 officer was involved in two of them just a month apart. Both times the "suspects" had threatend an officer with a weapon, or engaged in a fight with an officer trying to take that man's Service Pistol and use it against him. All three times alcohol and or drugs were involved and one was a domestic dispute gone haywire. Needless to say, the families of the victims said that the police used excessive force and should not have fired their handguns in self-defense.

Matters not if this guy was "mentally challenged", he had what appeared to be a rifle and refused to put it down. When confronting someone like that, you only have seconds to find out if you or they are going to die in the end.

[Sticks]

I can't believe the number of judgements here based on our ever truthful and factual media reports. Until I see dash cam or POV video of the incident, I will refrain from making a call on this one.

I am ashamed of some of you for jumping on the Media band wagon and blaming the LEOs here. Any time a bulk of the news story is quoting the family members of the "victim", it's suspect.

TOY+GUN+PIC+8-32.jpg

Looks like a gun barrel to me.

[MattInFla]

Cops shoot and kill old ladies with screwdrivers, young girls waking up in cars with cell phones (41 shots fired) in their hands, and unarmed grooms at weddings, and on and on it goes. Just one time I'd like to hear of the police shooting someone threatening them with a broom handle or a cell phone in the foot or leg to stop them instead of killing them. Just once.

Shooting someone is deadly force, and should never, ever be used to "stop" someone as you advocate.

Shoot them "in the leg to stop them instead of killing them"? Ask Sean Taylor how that works out in the end....