Repo man: A case of judged by 6 not carried by 6

Repo man: A case of judged by 6 not carried by 6

This is a discussion on Repo man: A case of judged by 6 not carried by 6 within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Miramar father of two dies in shootout with repo man, police say - Miramar - MiamiHerald.com According to the unidentified repo man, who was unhurt, ...

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Thread: Repo man: A case of judged by 6 not carried by 6

  1. #1
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    Repo man: A case of judged by 6 not carried by 6

    Miramar father of two dies in shootout with repo man, police say - Miramar - MiamiHerald.com

    According to the unidentified repo man, who was unhurt, he's the one who came under attack: He told police that Williams cursed and fired multiple shots at him before he fired back. Williams was fatally struck.
    Read more: Miramar father of two dies in shootout with repo man, police say - Miramar - MiamiHerald.com

    Here is the rub
    http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/FOR...gents-0110.pdf



    Firearms
    Licensed recovery agents and recovery agent
    interns are prohibited from carrying firearms
    while on private property and in the course of
    repossession activities. This is prohibited
    even if the licensee possesses a Concealed
    Weapon or Firearm License or a Class “G”
    Statewide Firearm License by virtue of other
    licensure as a security officer or private
    investigator.
    I believe his story [edit]about Williams firing first[/edit]. I would like to think an experienced repo man would know how to handle a conflict without resorting to a firearm unless absolutely necessary, Hopefully no charges will be filed and this restriction will get a closer look. If the repo man was not armed he may not have survived.

    I could go in a different angle and confess I also will sometimes carry a mouse gun in places my CCW does not allow.
    Last edited by rigel42; September 16th, 2011 at 02:59 PM.


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Freedom Doc's Avatar
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    The people who sit and make these kind of rules should be required to repo a car in a bad part of town and see how THEY like being unarmed.
    True, one should try not to have to resort to shooting; but to not even have the option?
    Anti-gunners seem to believe that if we just pass enough laws, we can have utopia. Unfortunately, utopia is NOT one of our choices.

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    Senior Member Array Spade115's Avatar
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    Ive seen the shows about repo-ing and ill admite sometimes they really should be armed.
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    If Williams thought the vehicle was being stolen he should have called 911 and gone so far as getting a tag number and or picture of tow driver,sounds like he let his personal feelings/emotions over ride common sense
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    Along with what spade said. Some of these people tend to react insanely even after they have been told it's a repo. Like they have some sort of entitlement that excludes the from the rules. It's pretty sad if you ask me. On the topic though, he was under fire, and I don't think he was in the wrong. I tend to avoid things that stop me from carrying though, and would never want a job like that that did not allow it.
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    Member Array oldcurmudgeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    If Williams thought the vehicle was being stolen he should have called 911 and gone so far as getting a tag number and or picture of tow driver,sounds like he let his personal feelings/emotions over ride common sense

    He knew that he was behind on his payments.

    He knew it was not being stolen.

  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array BadgerJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom Doc View Post
    The people who sit and make these kind of rules should be required to repo a car in a bad part of town and see how THEY like being unarmed.
    True, one should try not to have to resort to shooting; but to not even have the option?
    OMG, another example of the bloodthirsty posters on this site. Repoing a vehicle, while nice for the insurance company or car dealership, is not grounds to shoot someone.

    The Repo guy needs to use overwhelming speed and manpower, and maybe some Non-Lethal stuff if he really gets in dire straights, but he also needs to realize that he must abandon some repos if the guy is armed and on private property, and try again later.

    You don't go INTO a situation and do something and claim you needed to be armed to protect yourself. (Remember the 'avoid stupid places' rule).

    In addition no Repo guy should be given rights to USE a gun to acquire the repossession, which is what is subtly being implied.

    C'mon people use your head for something other than to think up ways to spray bullets down range unnecessarily. :)

    Not even Bail bondsmen use guns to apprehend wanted criminals...remember we're talking about a freaking CAR (or boat, etc.).
    Secret Spuk and REDROCKET like this.

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    Whoa..........wait a minute Badger. I was the repo guy for about 5 years in during the late eighties and early nineties. I agree with the speed and also a good portion of stealth. When I went after your car, I could take it in 30 to 45 seconds, on a good day. A bad day is when I got caught. I have been shot at, had my windows broken out of my truck with a baseball bat, had my orbital eye socket shattered etc.

    Most people will allow their cars to be repo'd with out resorting to violence. On the other hand there are people who don't understand the concept that they are only being allowed to use the bank's car. The bank is the legal owner, the user is the registered owner.

    The repo guy should have every right to carry, and if need be use deadly force to defend himself. The repo guy is conducting a legal activity and has every right to go home to his family.
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    Distinguished Member Array BadgerJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackson85746 View Post
    Whoa..........wait a minute Badger. I was the repo guy for about 5 years in during the late eighties and early nineties. I agree with the speed and also a good portion of stealth. When I went after your car, I could take it in 30 to 45 seconds, on a good day. A bad day is when I got caught. I have been shot at, had my windows broken out of my truck with a baseball bat, had my orbital eye socket shattered etc.
    Jackson, while I sympathize, and agree you're going into a 'war zone', the difference in Self-Defense where you are approached, or predated upon, and going INTO danger (like a LEO) and asking to have a handgun to protect you WHILE you go into a 'stupid place' is a whole 'nother story.

    Here's the distinction. At your shop, you should feel free to have a gun on premises and if a disgruntled repo-ee came there and tried to attack you or shoot you, then you'd have the moral high ground to use deadly force to protect yourself and your employees.

    BUT, if you go into hostile territory and are NOT a police officer who is enforcing a felony law, then you should NOT be allowed to arm up to do it. You're recovering property and MAY NOT do it at the point of a gun (even indirectly).

    Subtle distinction? Maybe, but I think it would be a very bad idea to arm meter maids, subpoena servers, city workers and Repo men and it would be equally bad for them not to retreat and to instead think they can use deadly force to enable their repossession of PROPERTY. (I'd assume it's not even a misdemeanor to fail to make payments, but a civil action).

    Does that make sense? :)
    Secret Spuk and REDROCKET like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerJ View Post
    Does that make sense? :)
    No.
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    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    I think you don't understand the nature of irrational overreaction of people at times BadgerJ. Many others have seen it, it's one of the reasons why many of us carry (or are eagerly waiting to carry for those of us in Wisconsin).

    There are some professions that should require background checks, and for those personnel to be armed. If only for the general safety of the employees. The jobs are just that inherently dangerous.

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    Distinguished Member Array BadgerJ's Avatar
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    Well, I stand by my assertion that going onto private property to repo a car in a civil matter would not be judged as something that justified using lethal self-defense. It's a civil matter, the Dealer is insured, and as I said, most of the time Bail Bondsmen do not employ or carry firearms to support or defend themselves.

    Now, a meter reader who is doing a passive job, i.e. reading meters in a high crime area WOULD, IMO, be justified as carrying a firearm to protect himself if he's attacked. But he's not actively engaging the client in a hostile manner. If you can't do your repo job and get it done by using speed and manpower and stealth, then you need to leave the vehicle for another time. You are not acting as a LEO, you are not permitted to use lethal force to secure the vehicle and again, you are going on private property to do a 'hostile' maneuver voluntarily related to a NON-FELONY or even a misdemeanor.

    If you have a handgun as a matter of course, I would have it locked up in the car and not deploy it during the 'job'. Yes it is a dangerous job, but you're going into danger voluntarily, unlike a civilian who is trying to evade, escape and de-escalate and if cornered can use lethal SD.

    I guess if this isn't clear we'll have to agree to disagree.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFury View Post
    There are some professions that should require background checks, and for those personnel to be armed. If only for the general safety of the employees. The jobs are just that inherently dangerous.
    And I think private repossession is not one of them. If they really want to claim someones property for not paying, let them take it to court instead of sending someone to try to steal it back under the claim that they are the true owner. Don't try to hide under some so called contract that had to be signed at purchase claiming you gave them this right at their discretion. In a repo situation, if they get hostile, leave and let the courts deal with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerj
    BUT, if you go into hostile territory and are NOT a police officer who is enforcing a felony law, then you should NOT be allowed to arm up to do it. You're recovering property and MAY NOT do it at the point of a gun (even indirectly).

    Subtle distinction? Maybe, but I think it would be a very bad idea to arm meter maids, subpoena servers, city workers and Repo men and it would be equally bad for them not to retreat and to instead think they can use deadly force to enable their repossession of PROPERTY. (I'd assume it's not even a misdemeanor to fail to make payments, but a civil action).

    Does that make sense? :)
    Yes, it does. Especially the part about recovering property at the point of a gun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerJ View Post
    Jackson, while I sympathize, and agree you're going into a 'war zone', the difference in Self-Defense where you are approached, or predated upon, and going INTO danger (like a LEO) and asking to have a handgun to protect you WHILE you go into a 'stupid place' is a whole 'nother story.

    Here's the distinction. At your shop, you should feel free to have a gun on premises and if a disgruntled repo-ee came there and tried to attack you or shoot you, then you'd have the moral high ground to use deadly force to protect yourself and your employees.

    BUT, if you go into hostile territory and are NOT a police officer who is enforcing a felony law, then you should NOT be allowed to arm up to do it. You're recovering property and MAY NOT do it at the point of a gun (even indirectly).

    Subtle distinction? Maybe, but I think it would be a very bad idea to arm meter maids, subpoena servers, city workers and Repo men and it would be equally bad for them not to retreat and to instead think they can use deadly force to enable their repossession of PROPERTY. (I'd assume it's not even a misdemeanor to fail to make payments, but a civil action).

    Does that make sense? :)
    No, nada, zip...zero!
    The repo man was doing his job...this definitely involves the Ben brothers, 'would of been, could of been, and should of ben'...when Williams started shooting at the repo man, everything changed. The repo man was within his rights to defend himself.OMOYMV
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerJ View Post
    Jackson, while I sympathize, and agree you're going into a 'war zone', the difference in Self-Defense where you are approached, or predated upon, and going INTO danger (like a LEO) and asking to have a handgun to protect you WHILE you go into a 'stupid place' is a whole 'nother story.

    Here's the distinction. At your shop, you should feel free to have a gun on premises and if a disgruntled repo-ee came there and tried to attack you or shoot you, then you'd have the moral high ground to use deadly force to protect yourself and your employees.

    BUT, if you go into hostile territory and are NOT a police officer who is enforcing a felony law, then you should NOT be allowed to arm up to do it. You're recovering property and MAY NOT do it at the point of a gun (even indirectly).Subtle distinction? Maybe, but I think it would be a very bad idea to arm meter maids, subpoena servers, city workers and Repo men and it would be equally bad for them not to retreat and to instead think they can use deadly force to enable their repossession of PROPERTY. (I'd assume it's not even a misdemeanor to fail to make payments, but a civil action).

    Does that make sense? :)


    ^^^^^^^NO^^^^^^^^^


    You make utterly NO SENSE!

    He's not requesting that repo guys be able to knock on someones door, stick a gun in someones face, and say "I'm the repo-man and I'm now gonna relieve you of the finance companies vehicle YOU'VE been driving.

    He's saying, if he's in harms way, much like the pizza delivery guy getting set up for a bad pizza delivery, or anyone else for that matter, to be able to defend themselves, which is exactly what the guy in the story did.
    What the banks need to start doing is, find a way to get LEO to supervise the repo of vehicles or at the very least, somehow deputize these guys. It'll be costlier but at least they will get the vehicle recovered without altercation or incident.



    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerJ View Post
    Well, I stand by my assertion that going onto private property to repo a car in a civil matter would not be judged as something that justified using lethal self-defense. It's a civil matter, the Dealer is insured, and as I said, most of the time Bail Bondsmen do not employ or carry firearms to support or defend themselves.No
    .


    ^^^^^^You are incorrect^^^^^^^^^^

    In assuming that the Auto Dealership has title to the vehicle.
    The bank,credit union or a private finance company owns it until you pay it off.
    It[the car] is purchased by someone loaning you money to pay for the vehicle, via a secured debt loan.
    Meaning its understood, by you, the buyer, that the money used is secured in the fact that if you don't pay, the vehicle will be taken to satisfy the security of the debt.


    You also seem to imply that you believe,{by your statement} that "it's insured". What does that mean?
    That the rightful owner, [the finance company] should somehow call THEIR insurance company and write it off.

    If thats what you mean, then why in the H.E. Double Hockey Sticks doesn't everyone, go buy a brand new car, finance it, then not make payments on it, and let the insurance company pay the finance company off.

    Sounds pretty stupid to me.
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