Robbery Suspect Fatally Shot by MN Carry Permit Holder

This is a discussion on Robbery Suspect Fatally Shot by MN Carry Permit Holder within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Does Minnesota have civil protection for justified self defense?...

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Thread: Robbery Suspect Fatally Shot by MN Carry Permit Holder

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Does Minnesota have civil protection for justified self defense?
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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  4. #33
    Member Array Sarisataka's Avatar
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    Knowing what is on the news, I think it will come down to motivation and time line:

    -Why did the citizen choose to pursue the criminal? was it to recover property? apprehend him? call 911 and tell them which way he was running?
    -The distance of the chase. I know that area and from the descriptions they probably ran at least 50 yards but could have been over 200
    -And likely most important, who drew first.

    In good guys favor-"In 2009, Evanovich[BG] was convicted in Hennepin County of attempted first-degree aggravated robbery and simple robbery. He was still on probation for both offenses at the time of his death."
    Against- Hennepin County is about the most carry-unfriendly in the state.
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  5. #34
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=629

    Whether one chooses to take the risk & the responsibility of attempting such an endeavor is up to them. Personally, I'd feel the responsibility of not letting the perp get away with an attack with the likelihood that they'd re-offend, as most of them tend to. However, I can't say that I want to be in a situation where I'd have to make such a choice.

    I read up on this law while still considering whether I wanted to carry a firearm outside of my property.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  6. #35
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    If he shot the guy while he was pistol-whipping the lady, this would be a no-brainer.

    However, he turned himself into a wanna-be cop and ended up risking his life being shot at, won the gun battle... and bought himself at least a $10k retainer for an attorney and a decent chance at getting charged. At best, he gets no-billed and is out the lawyer fees. At worst, an ambitious, anti-gun DA (and there are plenty of them in Minneapolis) puts him through a trial and he goes to jail. Unfair? Sure. That's why you don't go off on these adventures, you protect yourself and your loved ones.

    You could ask yourself if it would be worth the retainer and risk for someone you don't know.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  7. #36
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnK87 View Post
    If he shot the guy while he was pistol-whipping the lady, this would be a no-brainer.

    However, he turned himself into a wanna-be cop and ended up risking his life being shot at, won the gun battle... and bought himself at least a $10k retainer for an attorney and a decent chance at getting charged. At best, he gets no-billed and is out the lawyer fees. At worst, an ambitious, anti-gun DA (and there are plenty of them in Minneapolis) puts him through a trial and he goes to jail. Unfair? Sure. That's why you don't go off on these adventures, you protect yourself and your loved ones.

    You could ask yourself if it would be worth the retainer and risk for someone you don't know.
    Sure. Until the BG got to someone you know...
    oneshot likes this.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  8. #37
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    My family needs me too. I don't do them any good dead or in prison, so I have to ask myself if it is worth it before I insert myself into that situation.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  9. #38
    Distinguished Member Array Doghandler's Avatar
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    Now we're chasing people down?

    Uh.. Oh!

  10. #39
    Member Array moby clarke's Avatar
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    I find it interesting how quickly some are to believe exactly what the media report as though that is gospel. How a reporter writes his story usually has little, if anything, to do with what actually happened. Words like pursued and chased can easily be substituted for words liked "followed at a distance to gather further information to be passed on to the police". We don't know what really happened. And when I start believing as the truth anything printed in the Star Tribune, well let's just say that day will never come.

  11. #40
    Member Array moby clarke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisataka View Post
    Knowing what is on the news, I think it will come down to motivation and time line:

    -Why did the citizen choose to pursue the criminal? was it to recover property? apprehend him? call 911 and tell them which way he was running?
    -The distance of the chase. I know that area and from the descriptions they probably ran at least 50 yards but could have been over 200
    -And likely most important, who drew first.

    In good guys favor-"In 2009, Evanovich[BG] was convicted in Hennepin County of attempted first-degree aggravated robbery and simple robbery. He was still on probation for both offenses at the time of his death."
    Against- Hennepin County is about the most carry-unfriendly in the state.
    Yes to most with the exception that Ramsey is actually the most anti-carry county. Hennepin is just a close second.

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moby clarke View Post
    I find it interesting how quickly some are to believe exactly what the media report as though that is gospel. How a reporter writes his story usually has little, if anything, to do with what actually happened. Words like pursued and chased can easily be substituted for words liked "followed at a distance to gather further information to be passed on to the police". We don't know what really happened. And when I start believing as the truth anything printed in the Star Tribune, well let's just say that day will never come.
    Thank you for the reminder.

    Mugger accosts elderly woman, gets purse, hits her in the head, takes off running. Witness walking across the parking lot, or out of store sees this unfold from 30 - 40 yards, sees the BG running away after woman collapses, makes a decision (1-2 seconds = another 20 - 30 yard head start for the BG after the GG commits), then takes off after the BG. GG rounds the corner where the BG turned and keeps going to hopefully catch sight of the BG again. BG fires at GG after he runs past dumpster, draws CC and returns fire (note - none of the articles say how many shots were fired, and the media certainly is not going to say how many shots the BG took, let alone if he even fired his weapon).

    Food for thought.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  13. #42
    Member Array ecrist's Avatar
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    Another updated article link. From the article and the video of the Minneapolis police sergeant, it sounds as though, at least criminally, things are looking to the GG's favor. In classes, it's always been said that in Minneapolis, if you shoot someone, you will be arrested. This incident flies in the face of that statement and, in my eyes, redeems, a bit, the reasonableness of Minneapolis police.
    It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. - David Hume

  14. #43
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    If I were to hear someone breaking into my car and exit the house (not illegal for me to do that) to inspect what is happening and see Mr. Dirtbag.
    I see the Mr. Dirtbag exiting my car with some rather expensive items and starts to run off...I chase him (not illegal for me to do that).
    Upon catching up to that individual, he drops those expensive items and comes at me with a weapon (illegal for him to do that), and I provide him with 2-CoM/1-H (not illegal for me to do that in FL).

    Where have I done something illegal? Yes, I have to deal with the legal system, and the state in which one lives may provide more or less of a hassle (Texas :vs: Illinois).
    Granted, chasing someone may not be the wise thing to do, but that action is certainly understandable.
    If someone pulls out a weapon and threatens one's life, anywhere they (the victim) has a legal right to be, one CAN defend him/herself.

    This MN story appears to be just as the situation I have mentioned.
    Here we have an individual who chased a dirtbag thief.
    There were no other witnesses other than the living and legally armed citizen. There was the dead dirtbag's gun on the scene. The crime scene SHOULD fit the facts given by the shooter.
    I'm fairly certain he will not be charged...he should receive a 'Good Citizen Award'...IMHO.
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  15. #44
    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    If the susp posed any threat to the permit holder, I don't see a problem.
    Minnesota has Private Persons Arrest, 629.37 and use of force for same under 609.06. The permit holder is not escalating, he was attempting to arrest the perpetrator of the crime. The criminal does not have the right to resist arrest.
    Right or wrong, the above is the way it SHOULD be in every state.
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
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  16. #45
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    50 years ago this wouldn't be in doubt. The guy would have been labled a hero and the BG would be chucked in a hole and forgotten about. It's sad really that there was ever any doubt as to whether this guy was right or wrong.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

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