Robbery Suspect Fatally Shot by MN Carry Permit Holder

Robbery Suspect Fatally Shot by MN Carry Permit Holder

This is a discussion on Robbery Suspect Fatally Shot by MN Carry Permit Holder within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; MINNEAPOLIS - Minneapolis police say a man who witnessed an elderly woman being robbed and pistol-whipped shot and killed her attacker. Authorities say the armed ...

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Thread: Robbery Suspect Fatally Shot by MN Carry Permit Holder

  1. #1
    Member Array ecrist's Avatar
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    Post Robbery Suspect Fatally Shot by MN Carry Permit Holder

    MINNEAPOLIS - Minneapolis police say a man who witnessed an elderly woman being robbed and pistol-whipped shot and killed her attacker.

    Authorities say the armed robber confronted the woman in the parking lot of a grocery store about 10 p.m. Thursday, took her purse and hit her in the head with his gun. A man who witnessed the robbery chased the suspect and shot him. When police arrived, the witness told officers he had a permit to carry a gun and that he had shot the armed robbery suspect during a confrontation outside a nearby restaurant. He told officers where they could find his handgun. He was detained for questioning.


    I'm hoping things went down exactly as stated in the article and the permit holder proves to be the good guy. Sounds like this could be a pretty sticky place to be, but appears he may have done the right thing. A couple articles can be found at KARE11 (quoted above), KSTP, or The Star Tribune.
    Last edited by ecrist; October 21st, 2011 at 11:09 AM. Reason: added additional news story articles
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    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecrist View Post


    I'm hoping things went down exactly as stated in the article and the permit holder proves to be the good guy. Sounds like this could be a pretty sticky place to be, but appears he may have done the right thing. The full article is here.
    Well, I'm unfamiliar with MN's laws. To be honest, I'm not even sure how Texas law would treat this. I know we have the right to use deadly force to retrieve our stolen property while in "hot pursuit." However, I'm not sure if that applies to somebody else's property. I'd have been hard pressed to actually pull the trigger on somebody like that who is already on the run with somebody else's purse and is no longer a threat. That is going to be a tough one to defend.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." -Plato

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    VIP Member Array Civil_Response's Avatar
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    This will be interesting to follow, being a Minnesota resident myself I'm afraid this could go badly for him. His life was not in any danger of great bodily harm or death AND he not only pursued the situation, but escalated it.

    I hope they go fairly easy on him, after all. It could set a precedence for future happenings. Bad guys need to learn that they can't do whatever the heck they want, it's really getting out of hand - and they have more rights than good, hard working, honest people.

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    Member Array ecrist's Avatar
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    Based only on the articles, it appears he has volunteered to be the 'test case' and help set some additional precedent in Minnesota. Again, I hope everything's above-board and he's not nailed to a wall. I'm pretty certain the BG's family will file wrongful-death suit against him, though.
    It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. - David Hume

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    Member Array gunsnroses's Avatar
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    MINNEAPOLIS - Minneapolis police say a man who witnessed an elderly woman being robbed and pistol-whipped shot and killed her attacker.

    Authorities say the armed robber confronted the woman in the parking lot of a grocery store about 10 p.m. Thursday, took her purse and hit her in the head with his gun. A man who witnessed the robbery chased the suspect and shot him. When police arrived, the witness told officers he had a permit to carry a gun and that he had shot the armed robbery suspect during a confrontation outside a nearby restaurant. He told officers where they could find his handgun. He was detained for questioning.
    Bold= I dont think this makes for a good shoot?

    Underlined= Sounds like he lied to the LEO?

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    Chasing down the BG may make things a bit sticky, here’s hoping no charges will be filed.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

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    Member Array tommyj27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunsnroses View Post
    Bold= I dont think this makes for a good shoot?

    Underlined= Sounds like he lied to the LEO?
    My read is that the suspect was chased for a distance, then turned and confronted his pursuer outside a restaurant, at which point he was shot. If that's how it went down, I agree that the sticky bit is going to be that the man pursued him to begin with; no one was in immediate danger at that point.

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    Member Array macg19's Avatar
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    he needs a good witness to the confrontation outside the restaurant - hopefully the BG turned and pointed the gun, but in FL even that would be tough as he is now the aggressor and the BG has the right to defend himself (sad as that is)
    "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
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    Senior Member Array Dadsnugun's Avatar
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    Elderly folks shouldn't be shopping late at night, if they decide to disregard that advice and some good Samaritan comes to their rescue and kills their attacker, well, that's just fine in my world.
    Never pick a fight with an old man...If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you - John Steinbeck
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  10. #10
    Member Array ecrist's Avatar
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    There's now more information available on this on the Star Tribune's website.
    It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. - David Hume

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    Member Array YANG's Avatar
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    This is sticky indeed. He was NOT in immediate danger to himself. He pursued the suspects. PURSUED! This is already going south. The suspects already left the scene, yet he still pursued them. He should've been a good witness and then tended the injuries of the female.

    According to the articles I've read, the only witness was the suspects accomplice. I hope he as a really good lawyer.

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    If the susp posed any threat to the permit holder, I don't see a problem.
    Minnesota has Private Persons Arrest, 629.37 and use of force for same under 609.06. The permit holder is not escalating, he was attempting to arrest the perpetrator of the crime. The criminal does not have the right to resist arrest.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    VIP Member Array Civil_Response's Avatar
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    Guantes, while I appreciate the statutes I have to chime in before people take that as it's OK to play cops and robbers with your permit to carry.

    There has been nothing in either permit class I've taken that says anything about an armed civilian being able to chase down a criminal, and shoot them. Quite the contrary in fact. In Minnesota you MUST retreat if at all possible. They are trying to get a bill passed that changes this a little bit, but until then if you can retreat - that's your duty.

    I also disagree that he did not escalate the situation - the suspect was fleeing at the time and the permit holder chased him down, resulting in an escalation to use deadly force. The person who was injured suffered minor injuries to the head.

    That said, I'm not saying I wish any ill happenings to the man who stopped this criminal - I just don't think his future looks too bright with what has been presented.

    With the education I have been given in two different classes I would not have done the same, I would have tended to the victim and called 911 while trying to be the best witness possible.

    In Minnesota it ends when there is no longer a threat of great bodily harm or death for a permit to carry holder.

    In fact, I was told this gruesome story by my instructor - "Let me put it to you like this, in harsh terms. If I saw my wife being raped and then stabbed to death, it would be against the law for me to pursue him if he started walking away, and if I did so and killed the man, I would be arrested for murder because he was no longer a threat."

    That hit really, really hard and I'll never forget it.

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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Regardless of the right or wrong of this situation, here is what I KNOW, anyone who would prey on the elderly and hit them in the head with a gun deserves this. I wish it would happen more to the bad guys. Callus as that may sound, it is how I feel.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Civil_Response's Avatar
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    I agree man, I agree.

    It's not that I don't think what he did was morally acceptable, I just don't think it's going to end will with the current laws in Minnesota - which is unfortunate.

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