Bad: They're wearing body armor. Good: it doesn't always work

This is a discussion on Bad: They're wearing body armor. Good: it doesn't always work within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by mcp1810 And you will know the search warrant is illegal how? You got a judge in your pocket? Or do you just ...

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Thread: Bad: They're wearing body armor. Good: it doesn't always work

  1. #16
    Member Array normAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    And you will know the search warrant is illegal how? You got a judge in your pocket? Or do you just figure on shooting at any LEO that shows up at your house without your invitation?
    The correct way to enter my house is to knock on the door and get my permission to enter. Anyone who does otherwise is, more likely than not, going to get shot.
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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    I have 30 rounds of 75 gr OTM match ammo on hand for just such an occasion.
    ... using 68 gr OTM myself.
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  4. #18
    Member Array Eaglebeak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    Just curious.........Anyone care to explain how 00 Buck at close range (10-20 feet) works on run of the mill body armor?
    Neither a 12ga. slug or load of 00-buckshot will penetrate most soft body armor - but then, getting hit by a truck won't penetrate either.

    However, I seriously doubt that anyone could take the force of a 12ga. at close range (penetration or not) without being knocked flat and totally incapacitated for some length of time (get the number of that truck). If they're still moving a bit after going down, the second load will go to the un-armored head if a threat is still perceived to exist.

    Defensive Shotgun.jpg
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammerjammer View Post
    That's why my 870 Magnum is loaded with magnum Sabot slugs. Gotta be prepared for home invasion by bg or illegal search warrant.
    I pray no one ever serves a no knock (illegally...and since I am a law abiding citizen without so much as a parking ticket it would have to be illegal) on me. Especially if it's a case of mistaken address, happens more than you know. Will be a pile of people at my doorway.

  6. #20
    Ex Member Array NYCrulesU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by normAK View Post
    The correct way to enter my house is to knock on the door and get my permission to enter. Anyone who does otherwise is, more likely than not, going to get shot.
    Exactly.

  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array TerriLi's Avatar
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    As to body armor and shotguns depends on the class. I know that a IIa will stop buckshot but not slugs. IIIa will stop a slug, standard police vests are IIa with a IIIa hard plate. Honestly without a rigid plate and a trauma plate a shotgun will break a lot of ribs under 20 feet with buckshot or slugs.
    I know not what this "overkill" means.

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  8. #22
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Actually IIa vests are on their way out. The vest I got about twenty years ago was a then current level II and that would stop slugs. Everyone I have talked to recently is getting/issuing IIIa soft.
    I kind of miss the good old days when they gave you the whole laundry list of what each level would stop. Now you just get basically 9mm "x" grains at "y" velocity and .40 "x" grains at "y" velocity. Used to be they would start off at .22 long rifle and list all the way up to .44 magnum 240 grain JSP.

    My current vest is a IIIa that is rated for "special threat" handgun rounds without a hard or soft plate. But rifles are another story all together.
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  9. #23
    Member Array l1a1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I believe they later passed a law the prohibits the use of body armor during the commission of a crime.

    Michael
    I bet that law works nearly as well as the laws prohibiting the commision of a crime in the first place. :)

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglebeak View Post
    Neither a 12ga. slug or load of 00-buckshot will penetrate most soft body armor - but then, getting hit by a truck won't penetrate either.

    However, I seriously doubt that anyone could take the force of a 12ga. at close range (penetration or not) without being knocked flat and totally incapacitated for some length of time (get the number of that truck). If they're still moving a bit after going down, the second load will go to the un-armored head if a threat is still perceived to exist.

    Defensive Shotgun.jpg
    I wish I could find the videos but I think I lost them when my laptop crashed. I had a couple of dash cam and surveillence videos of people with no body armor getting 00 buck to the chest. Their reactions were spectaculary unspectacular. One guy sort of fell on his butt then fell over on his side. The other two just sort of fell down. You can see more spectacular falls on any given day at a skating rink. Except for the blood they looked like they could have just stood back up.
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglebeak View Post
    Neither a 12ga. slug or load of 00-buckshot will penetrate most soft body armor - but then, getting hit by a truck won't penetrate either.

    However, I seriously doubt that anyone could take the force of a 12ga. at close range (penetration or not) without being knocked flat and totally incapacitated for some length of time (get the number of that truck). If they're still moving a bit after going down, the second load will go to the un-armored head if a threat is still perceived to exist.

    Defensive Shotgun.jpg
    Copper sabot 12 gauge rounds go right through soft body armor.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    I wish I could find the videos but I think I lost them when my laptop crashed. I had a couple of dash cam and surveillence videos of people with no body armor getting 00 buck to the chest. Their reactions were spectaculary unspectacular. One guy sort of fell on his butt then fell over on his side. The other two just sort of fell down. You can see more spectacular falls on any given day at a skating rink. Except for the blood they looked like they could have just stood back up.
    I will grant that some people have an unreasonable expectation of people bodily thrown backward by the blast from a shotgun (I think the best movie example of what actually happens can be seen in the movie, "The Fugitive," during the bus takeover at the beginning of the movie). On the other hand, an non-penetrating blow against body armor means no loss of velocity while traveling through the body, so it's likely to be equal to a very hard punch to the chest without body armor. The amount of energy imparted by the slugs will be approximately equal (minus inconsequential loss of velocity during flight at buckshot range) to the force imparted to the shooter. Now think about that force, impacting on a smaller surface area, without bracing: it's going to hurt unless it impacts a trauma plate.

    The lesson, as usual: continue shooting until the threat is stopped. You expect this with a handgun, in this day and age, it's best to be prepared to do the same with a shotgun.

    Ryan
    Last edited by socal2310; December 24th, 2011 at 11:07 AM. Reason: grammar
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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agave View Post
    In Tennessee, it's a felony to wear body armor while in commission of certain violent felonies.
    Defense Lawyer: Well Judge the defendant was just trying to turn his life around when he robbed the bank and shot the guard and the teller. He deserves leniency.

    Judge: 'OK fine, but he was wearing body armor. That's a felony, sorry'.

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    “The gentleman that did get shot and was killed was wearing body armor,” Martin said. “That is a trend we are starting to see. The bad guys go in to do a robbery or home invasion and they have their body armor on.

    "The Gentleman???"
    The rest of the story:

    The shooter is now in Federal custody on related drug charges. He was prepared for the invasion because it was a robbery related to same

    Davis in custody


    Yikes.

  15. #29
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    Guess we all need to practice our Mozambique drills then. :)

  16. #30
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    good to see the BGs are taking each other out,
    but body armor on the street is a problem
    does anyone have a idea what .357 sig does to the stuff?

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