Bad: They're wearing body armor. Good: it doesn't always work - Page 3

Bad: They're wearing body armor. Good: it doesn't always work

This is a discussion on Bad: They're wearing body armor. Good: it doesn't always work within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Their reactions were spectaculary unspectacular. Bingo. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." If the recoil from the shotgun can't throw the ...

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Thread: Bad: They're wearing body armor. Good: it doesn't always work

  1. #31
    Member Array BritishAgent's Avatar
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    Their reactions were spectaculary unspectacular.
    Bingo. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

    If the recoil from the shotgun can't throw the shooter backwards on his ass and/or incapacitate him, then the projectile(s) fired from said weapon can't do it to the target either.

    Newton: 1, Hollywood: 0
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  2. #32
    Member Array dooga's Avatar
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    Body armor in its different forms and varieties are so available and common, including plates, that I assume someone is both armed and armored unless otherwise proven.

    Do you guys watch "Homeland?"

    "Always shoot at the knees in an ambush"

    Are knees better than body-mass?
    Gen 1 G17, Gen 3 G23, Gen 4 G26, 870P, MkIII 678, 10/22 Carbine

  3. #33
    Senior Member Array marcclarke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopard125 View Post
    does anyone have a idea what .357 sig does to the stuff?
    Won't go through good soft body armor.

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    A Federal Premium twelve gauge one ounce slug has an advertised muzzle energy of about 2100 ft/lbs. Their 240 grain .44 magnum is about 800 ft/lbs.
    A decent vest will stop the slug no problem. But no one ever said it was going to be fun. Unless of course your idea of fun is to have Jose Canseco hit you in the chest with a baseball bat. Then yeah, it might be fun!

    Some of the exotic sabot rounds will probably defeat most soft armor but wont do anything against hard plate. Foster and Breneke slugs are big fat soft wads of lead. The perfect stuff for soft armor to stop. With buck shot you have to keep in mind that what you really have once the pattern starts to open up is not a one ounce projectile like a slug but a bunch of 54 grain round lead balls. The ballistic coefficient is lousy so velocity (and energy) start dropping as soon as the shot cup clears the muzzle and the buffer starts to get out of the way of the lead. Part of the way soft armor works is to spread the energy from the impact over a larger area. As the shot pattern opens up it is sort of doing that part of the job for the armor itself.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  5. #35
    New Member Array anaberration's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by normAK View Post
    The correct way to enter my house is to knock on the door and get my permission to enter. Anyone who does otherwise is, more likely than not, going to get shot.
    I hate those pesky Girl Scouts selling cookies also.....
    So, I turned to my partner and said " You do understand this is a Hungarian made, Mosin Nagant
    M44, 7.62x54r and we only have a 16" diameter poplar tree as a backstop ?"

  6. #36
    Senior Member Array DUNDEM's Avatar
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    Ahh the times we live in... Gotta take head shots...lol.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Array wdbailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dooga View Post
    Body armor in its different forms and varieties are so available and common, including plates, that I assume someone is both armed and armored unless otherwise proven.

    Do you guys watch "Homeland?"

    "Always shoot at the knees in an ambush"

    Are knees better than body-mass?
    Go measure the diameter of your knee, go measure your head.

    compare the two.

    Knees move around a lot more than heads do and there's two of them.

    The femurs up to the pelvic girdle make a marginally acceptable target if that's all you've got to take a shot at.

    Don't take tactical advice from television shows!

  8. #38
    Member Array tommy62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    Just curious.........Anyone care to explain how 00 Buck at close range (10-20 feet) works on run of the mill body armor?
    At 10-20 ft I would opt for a cranial relocation.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agave View Post
    In Tennessee, it's a felony to wear body armor while in commission of certain violent felonies.
    Lol,
    yea, that will keep them from doing anything bad. like shooting at people.

    it is so frustrating to have laws that read like the cartoons on Sunday. if you'r out to commit armed robery, rape in the first, or mass mudrer then it is a crime to wear body armor.
    what exactly does this add to the side of law enforcment?

    why not make it a capital crime with express lane treatment for "certain violent felonies".
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
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  10. #40
    New Member Array hschork's Avatar
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    I'm curious to know what do you think 44 mag 225 grain FTX fired from a 20 inch lever action do? It is rated at 1870 fps and 1750 lbs muzzle energy.
    Would it knock the BG off his feet? The energy is almost doubled from a 4 inch revolver.

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array Dadsnugun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agave View Post
    In Tennessee, it's a felony to wear body armor while in commission of certain violent felonies.
    This is really, really funny, if one thinks about it...
    Never pick a fight with an old man...If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you - John Steinbeck
    Come to Colorado...the governor is loopy
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  12. #42
    Member Array Footslogger's Avatar
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    I have heard but not confirmed that the feds are trying to pass a law to make it a felony to commit a felony while committing a felony.
    Dave

    "When among wild beasts, if they menace you, be a wild beast."
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  13. #43
    Senior Member Array marcclarke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hschork View Post
    I'm curious to know what do you think 44 mag 225 grain FTX fired from a 20 inch lever action do? It is rated at 1870 fps and 1750 lbs muzzle energy.
    Would it knock the BG off his feet? The energy is almost doubled from a 4 inch revolver.
    By Newton's Second Law of Motion, for each and ever action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Thus, if the bullet you cite carried enough energy to knock a bad guy off his feet it would also knock you off your feet when you fired it. So the answer to your query is no.

    The most common reaction bad guys have when they are shot is no reaction at all. Contrary to Hollywood Physics, bad guys are not thrown backward across rooms and out of windows due to being shot (even with a shotgun). If a bad guy is shot he will tend to simply keep moving in whatever direction he was already moving. If he was already standing still he will tend to continue standing still.

    Everything you learned from Hollywood about guns and physics is wrong. (If I am the first one to bring this to your attention, sorry about that.)
    BritishAgent likes this.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcclarke View Post
    By Newton's Second Law of Motion, for each and ever action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Thus, if the bullet you cite carried enough energy to knock a bad guy off his feet it would also knock you off your feet when you fired it. So the answer to your query is no.

    The most common reaction bad guys have when they are shot is no reaction at all. Contrary to Hollywood Physics, bad guys are not thrown backward across rooms and out of windows due to being shot (even with a shotgun). If a bad guy is shot he will tend to simply keep moving in whatever direction he was already moving. If he was already standing still he will tend to continue standing still.

    Everything you learned from Hollywood about guns and physics is wrong. (If I am the first one to bring this to your attention, sorry about that.)
    +1. I agree with everything here. IF the BG does react to being shot it is usually to do what is commonly referred to as the clam. The pull their arms in and into a protective looking move and they crouch a bit hoping to not get hit again. They do not immediately fall down unless there is a CNS hit.

    The key word here is IF they react.

    I will also state that I have never personally shot anyone so all of my knowledge is second or third hand. Frankly, I hope it stays that way.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  15. #45
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    A failure to stop drill (aka Mozambique drill) should be your standard response if your first shot or two to COM does not have the desired effect. Continuing to shoot COM when your first few shots are having no discernible effect is a waste of ammo. Doesn't matter if the failure to stop is because of body armor, drugs, motivation, psychosis, or whatever. 2-3 to the chest, followed by 1-2 more carefully aimed shots to the head. Makes concerns over body armor (and caliber) rather moot.

    If you cannot do this - practice until you can.
    marcclarke likes this.
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