One for our side.

One for our side.

This is a discussion on One for our side. within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Saw this today. One up for our side. Restaurant Robbery Foiled By Gun-Packing Customer POSTED: 10:04 am EDT August 18, 2006 UPDATED: 12:22 pm EDT ...

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Thread: One for our side.

  1. #1
    Member Array glocksmygun's Avatar
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    One for our side.

    Saw this today. One up for our side.

    Restaurant Robbery Foiled By Gun-Packing Customer

    POSTED: 10:04 am EDT August 18, 2006
    UPDATED: 12:22 pm EDT August 18, 2006

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    INDIANAPOLIS -- An armed customer foiled a robbery at a fast-food restaurant on Indianapolis west side on Thursday afternoon, according to Indianapolis police.

    Police said William McMiller Jr., 40, ordered a bucket of chicken before demanding money from a cashier and threatening to shoot at the KFC in the 2800 block of West 16th Street.

    Police said the clerk didn't understand what McMiller wanted and thought he was asking for a refund.

    Investigators said McMiller repeated his demand two more times before the clerk reached for money.

    Investigators said that when McMiller began to climb over the counter, Paul Sherlock, a customer in the restaurant at the time, approached from behind and pulled out a Taurus 9mm handgun.

    William McMiller

    "I said, 'I can't let this happen. He might hurt her,'" Sherlock said. "Anybody can get hurt back here. So, I said, 'I got to do something,' and that's when it happened."

    Sherlock held McMiller until police arrived. McMiller has three prior armed robbery convictions. He was held in the Marion County Jail on Friday, facing a new robbery charge.

    Police later determined that McMiller did not have a gun, but did have a long screwdriver. Investigators said Sherlock has a valid gun permit.

    Watch 6News beginning First At 5:00 for updates.

  2. #2
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    Array CopperKnight's Avatar
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    Great work. And didn't need to fire a shot.
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

  3. #3
    Member Array TinySA45's Avatar
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    What do you all think about this? I think he did a great job, and being from Indy I am happy another thug is off the street, at least for the moment. I have seen posts that suggest if the crime doesn't directly affect you, don't get involved. Thoughts?

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  5. #4
    Member Array cpmiv's Avatar
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    Everyone has to make thier own decisions based on thier own moral compass. There can be a lot of armchair discussions about it but I don't think you'll really know until you are faced with the decision. It looks like the GG will be fine legally but depending on the political climate of the area a DA could get him on brandishing or something else "stupid" if he's an Anti.
    There are over 550 million firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is: How do we arm the other 11? (Yuri Orlov [Nicolas Cage] Lord of War)

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    First off, great job from our side! Paul Sherlock did the right thing.

    If a crime is being committed right in front of me two things have to happen before I get involved.

    1) a weapon must be being used in the robbery or crime being committed.

    2) The BG has to show aggression/threats and verbal loss of life or whatever towards the clerk or potential victim's. If this happens I am going to intervine. If it doesn't and it is a clean robbery, meaning that they only wanted to cash, showed no weapon or verbal assults on someones life. They get to walk away, money can be replaced a life cannot.

    It is a tough choice but if I am ever in a situation like this I will do the right thing and hope all the hard work training/preparing kick's in and get's me through it as well as help me make the right decision's.

    Train and train hard, you might not get a second chance to make a first impression!

    I vote for Monica Lewinsky's Ex-Boyfriend's Wife for President.....Not!

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array palmgopher's Avatar
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    i'd give this guy an A+......true sheepdog =O)

  8. #7
    Member Array Kimo's Avatar
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    Vary cool, Good for him.
    -Lady Liberty-
    United Stats Army,(Ret)

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpmiv View Post
    Everyone has to make thier own decisions based on thier own moral compass.
    Florida comes the closest, IMO, to spelling it out in plain words: A CHL grants you a license to carry, though it's not a license to shoot. Standard laws regarding vigilantism generally still apply, pushes toward Castle Doctrine and clauses disallowing lawsuits against clean shoots notwithstanding.

    Yes, everyone has their own compass. For me, it's based on my training, my physical abilities/limitations, the risks and the specifics of the situation. In this specific situation, would I have done the same thing? Perhaps, assuming the tactical elements were conducive to surviving, prevailing, avoiding death of bystanders/victims; though, dependent on the perp's mental state, weapons and preparedness, it could quickly and easily cascade to an all-out firefight, getting very messy. For me, it depends, given the tactical and legal realities of the specific situation.

    In this particular type of situation, an "anti" DA could easily press the case and claim a citizen has taken the law into his own hands. Unless in a state where citizen defense of others in such situations is specifically allowed, (sadly) the DA might well have legal footing. But, then, that's the deal (the scrutiny) with carrying. It's a minefield out there. Know the laws that apply to you, despite what moral reasons might prompt you to take a given stand.

    That said, I completely agree on the basics: the criminal caused the situation; people were at risk; someone took a righteous and proper step to stop the crime. Should be that simple and, IMO, that ideally should be enough to shield the "good sam" from prosection of any kind, criminal or civil. (Hopefully we'll get there at some point.)
    Last edited by ccw9mm; August 19th, 2006 at 08:26 AM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).

  10. #9
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    Array rstickle's Avatar
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    I love it when that happens!

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  11. #10
    Member Array glocksmygun's Avatar
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    That is the good thing about Indiana. We have a no retreat law now. This is that when confronted by a BG you do not have to retreat you can stand your ground. Alot of the Indiana government is pro gun that is how we got the lifetime permit passed. The law also stated that if you feel that your life or someone elses life is in physical danger or in danger of being killed you can defend them by any way you can even deadly force. I love Indiana.

  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array lowflyer's Avatar
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    There is no retreat in KS either. You have the right to defend yourself and others so long as you are in an area in which you have the legal right to be. I wonder if he knew the guy was not armed with a gun and that is why he didn't shoot. If I felt the threat level was high enough to draw, I think I would have shot the BG. I don't think I would draw a gun to point it at anybody that I am not going to kill. I reckon that's just my policy. I pray I never have to worry about it either way. All turned out well in this case, so cudos to the GG!
    Whatever doesn't kill you postpones the inevitable.

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
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    Three priors?

    Three priors for armed robbery? How come he was out of jail in the first place (and only 40 years old)?

    Of course, like the media ever get their facts right, but assuming they did, you would have thought that he would have gotten longer sentences for the first couple and life for the third.

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    In this case, I feel that anyone who commits an armed robbery within my "security space" has involved me as a potential victim. Assess the scenario and act accordingly.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array Joshua M. Smith's Avatar
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    This is what I love about Indiana. I don't like the price we pay however. While our state seems to trust its citizens and (I believe) the permit system has become only a means to supply funds for police firearms training (last I heard), most states that supply training with their firearms permits don't seem to want to recognize ours. I agree that training is a good idea, but I also believe that it should be sought by one's self and should not be mandatory. People were carrying pistols before the permit system and will do so after it's been obliterated.

    Josh <><

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array gwhall57's Avatar
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    Good for Sherlock.

    I hope I never find myself in this situation, but I'm pretty sure that I would not let a BG, even if he is only armed with a screw-driver, harm or injure someone else in my vicinity. I might have hesitated until it was absolutely apparent that the BG was going to start stabbing or clobbering the female employee before I drew, but... Ya never know until "crunch time" how you are going to react...

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