This is a discussion on Good: Robber Waffle House shot dead by CCW permit holder. within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by l1a1 If I were there it might have gone down something like this..... Dirtbag - This is a holdup! Me - (heroically ...
After pulling his .45-caliber Glock, the customer ordered the men to stay put until deputies arrived. Only after Williams pointed his Hi-Point 9mm at the man, did the customer fire, Wright said.
well here's a pattern I've seen a few times before. This is the fourth or fifth time I've seen a CCW'er blow away a dirt bag with Glock that was carrying a Hi-Point.
Moral of Story? Mama don't let your thug babies grow up to carry Hi-Points.
Kimbers are the guns you show your friends....Glocks are the ones you show your enemies.
As a CCW holder I wouldn't have gotten involved unless my life was in imminent danger. I'm not interested in getting shot by two thugs trying to steal someone elses money. Had they starting shooting people or moving people to the back of the restaurant, that would be a different story. Be a good witness and let the police handle this.
Our hero tried to do the right thing and spare the yute's life. Admirable, maybe appropriate under the circumstances, but not for me. If I'm in a similar situation and I have the slightest hint that the robbery is not going smooth as butter, I'll take whatever opportunity I have to neutralize the danger.
Any attempt by a CCWer to spare someone's life should NOT involve increased danger to the CCWer. I suppose if you're in a 'safe' position to offer him an out, so that your reaction time is guaranteed to beat his reaction time, it's the decent thing to do, and one that an LEO must do. LEOs are held to a higher standard, and could be prosecuted for manslaughter.
This CCWer allowed the perp to prove he was willing to use lethal force. Case closed.
Completely off topic: What if a CCW permit came with quasi-LEO authority and/or responsibilities, instead of being just a permit to conceal a firearm?
"Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18
Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
Paramedics With Guns Scare People!
I would have acted in the same fashion (theoretically speaking since I haven't been in this situation before). BG shoots another person or people and I had a means of possibly preventing that and didn't, I'd have more guilt on me than if I had taken another life with my own weapon.
The lesson to be learned here is that if you pull that gun you had best be mentally prepared to use it, because our CC'er apparently had the drop on Dante and Dante still tried to engage him.
Last edited by JCabranes; January 22nd, 2012 at 10:55 AM. Reason: spelling
If a couple of BGs with guns drawn start ordering people to the floor and employees to the back of the restaurant, I consider that a "threat" to my life and the lives of everyone else there! And especially if there are two BGs, I don't believe in giving up the benefit of surprise by warning them that I have a gun! It would be a matter of yelling "drop the weapon" followed a split second later by shots at both BGs to stop the threat! I'm glad things turned out well for the CCW holder in this case, and I can understand him not wanting to have to shoot the perps, but giving them a warning and trying to hold them for the police put his and the other customers and employees lives in even more danger. Just my .02.
Live to ride, ride to live. Harley Road King And keep a .45 handy Kimber Custom TLE II
Dante and his bud experienced an "acute failure of the victim selection process". Hope the capture the accomplice and charge him with murder for the death of his bud, Dante.
A very unhappy birthday to the BG. Post mortum on CCW's reactions should serve as a scenarios lesson.
I mean, the story gives the impression that the CCW is practically entering a Mexican standoff. Would covert draw until becoming the focus of the BG's 9mm be a better choice? This isn't the Scenarios forum; but covert draw when in Code Orange, and stop an armed robber's lethal threat right out of the box asap. Maybe that's what the CCW did just giving loud commands, as recommended by many experts?A customer, who is a concealed weapons permit holder, thwarted the robbery by pulling his gun and attempting to hold the men until deputies arrived. When one of the men pointed his gun at the customer, the patron fired, killing the teenager.
.... even after the masked men entered the restaurant, the concealed weapons holder waited until the robbers began ordering customers to the floor and employees into the back - while waving a gun - to act. After pulling his .45-caliber Glock, the customer ordered the men to stay put until deputies arrived. Only after Williams pointed his Hi-Point 9mm at the man, did the customer fire, Wright said.
One thing I'm sure of: More guns, less crime.
-Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
All's well that ends well, except for the perp. Easy to Monday morning QB. That said I think the points made about element of surprise and such are food for thought. If perps are going to make dumb decisions they should expect that there is the chance that they are going to end up on a slab.
Young life cut short, not by the ccw customer, even if he was the instrument, it was the way he was raised.
"A man has a right to protect his property and his life"