wow NY turns on NYPD

This is a discussion on wow NY turns on NYPD within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I already had a negative view of NY City. And yes I have been there before. I have seen and heard enough of NYC that ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
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    I already had a negative view of NY City. And yes I have been there before. I have seen and heard enough of NYC that I will avoid it at all costs. The only way to stay out of jail in NYC is to be an unarmed sheep and fall on your knees and pray to god while you are being slaughtered.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadsnugun View Post
    They eat their young there.
    Obviously, they don't eat enough of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Notable too is that no one states that the man convicted ever identified himself as a cop. Possibly he was outside of his jurisdiction. (I don't know if NYC cops can carry outside NYC or have any authority outside in NY State.)
    They do have statewide authority and can carry anywhere. According to the article he was not and retrieved a gun from inside the store, and by the looks of it it would not have been is off-duty carry. I'm guessing he didn't identify himself either.
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastk9dad View Post
    They do have statewide authority and can carry anywhere. According to the article he was not and retrieved a gun from inside the store, and by the looks of it it would not have been is off-duty carry. I'm guessing he didn't identify himself either.
    Here's where I have a problem with the whole story. He stated that he got hammered hard at the start, then the 3 of them subdued the man; then they let him go; then the dead guy went to retrieve the bat; then the cop went to retrieve his gun.

    At the first blow a badge maybe should have been produced? Maybe pepper? Maybe even at that instant a gun carried off duty along with a command "Police officer-- STOP." None of that happened. Instead they all entered into combat with the man and took him to the ground. Duh, at that point sit on him and 911 it? Spray him and 911 it? No, they let him up, never the word "police" seems to have not been uttered as best anyone can tell from the news stories.

    No one in this tragic story behaved correctly. And no one is telling the whole truth about what they witnessed. And who knows why Pirro overcharged; murder with "depraved indifference" seems over the top, though possible depending on how one looks at it.

    I think we will never know the true story here, but one thing I am positive of. This wasn't 4 good well behaved guys. It sounds to me like a stupid jerk tough guy and three "playing tough" "wise guys." My opinion, obviously based on very sparse facts and conflicting story lines. In short, that's my hunch, and it could be far from the real reality and truth.
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  6. #20
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    Sounds to me, It has NAACP written all over it JMO ; )
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Here's where I have a problem with the whole story. He stated that he got hammered hard at the start, then the 3 of them subdued the man; then they let him go; then the dead guy went to retrieve the bat; then the cop went to retrieve his gun.

    At the first blow a badge maybe should have been produced? Maybe pepper? Maybe even at that instant a gun carried off duty along with a command "Police officer-- STOP." None of that happened. Instead they all entered into combat with the man and took him to the ground. Duh, at that point sit on him and 911 it? Spray him and 911 it? No, they let him up, never the word "police" seems to have not been uttered as best anyone can tell from the news stories.

    No one in this tragic story behaved correctly. And no one is telling the whole truth about what they witnessed. And who knows why Pirro overcharged; murder with "depraved indifference" seems over the top, though possible depending on how one looks at it.

    I think we will never know the true story here, but one thing I am positive of. This wasn't 4 good well behaved guys. It sounds to me like a stupid jerk tough guy and three "playing tough" "wise guys." My opinion, obviously based on very sparse facts and conflicting story lines. In short, that's my hunch, and it could be far from the real reality and truth.
    I don't disagree with any of what you said. I'd say he probably didn't identify himself at the beginning since he wasn't carrying. But once he went and retrieved the one from inside the store he probably should of identified himself at that point even though in a deadly force encounter nothing is required to be said. This is an interesting case to say the least, very surprised of the charges and the conviction - more surprised that this is the first I'm hearing of it, no mention of this case in the academy. There is certainly more to this than what we see in print.
    "I got a lot of problems with you people!" - Frank Costanza

  8. #22
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    According to the article, he didn't go in to retrieve the pistol, he went inside because the fight was over. The father was outside, thinking it was all done with, when the dead guy went and got the bat and attacked the father. And the shooter didn't stop the attack - the father was hit at least twice (broken kneecap and wrist). The shooter saw what was happening outside, grabbed the pistol from behind the counter, and went outside, where he then shot the bat-weilder.

    I do agree with Hop that there was a lot of wrong done by a lot of folks, and that there must be "the rest of the story" out there somewhere... Even in NYC a cop who shoots someone who has already struck their father twice with a baseball bat and is continuing the attack would NEVER be charged, much less convicted. Something else almost HAS to be in play, aside from (what very much appears to be) over-zealous prosecution. A very strange story, indeed.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    It's not like I would have ever gone to NY anyway, now I won't even look at a travel brochure of the place.
    Never been there, never going...what a 'crock'.
    Correct answer,,,,

    Boycott them BOTH (NY & ILLINOIS),,,,,every time I start to travel to NY they
    show HOW BIASED THEY ARE AGAINST GUNS & GUN OWNER.
    I have been thinking about traveling thru NYC ,,,,, but NO I am not.
    Only bad things happen to gun owners in BOTH STATES.

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    According to the article, he didn't go in to retrieve the pistol, he went inside because the fight was over. The father was outside, thinking it was all done with, when the dead guy went and got the bat and attacked the father. And the shooter didn't stop the attack - the father was hit at least twice (broken kneecap and wrist). The shooter saw what was happening outside, grabbed the pistol from behind the counter, and went outside, where he then shot the bat-weilder.

    I do agree with Hop that there was a lot of wrong done by a lot of folks, and that there must be "the rest of the story" out there somewhere... Even in NYC a cop who shoots someone who has already struck their father twice with a baseball bat and is continuing the attack would NEVER be charged, much less convicted. Something else almost HAS to be in play, aside from (what very much appears to be) over-zealous prosecution. A very strange story, indeed.
    Just for clarity, this happened in Westchester County, North of NYC. It is a suburb of NYC. Go just a few miles further N and you
    start to get into the beautiful areas that surround where West Point is located.

    Just like TX and IL, the state isn't what you see when you look at the urban areas.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  11. #25
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    Fair enough, though I would consider Westchester the "greater New York City metro area" for the purposes of this discussion. And yes, once you get out of NYC, there is a lot of really beautiful country in NY state...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array Crescentstar's Avatar
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    When I went to the police academy, our firearms instructor told us never to carry a gun in NYC, even as an off-duty police officer. He said we would be arrested, no matter what. I only went there once, and left the iron at home. Having seen it once, I had my fill. If they would treat a sworn officer like a criminal, I don't need to go back.
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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crescentstar View Post
    When I went to the police academy, our firearms instructor told us never to carry a gun in NYC, even as an off-duty police officer. He said we would be arrested, no matter what. I only went there once, and left the iron at home. Having seen it once, I had my fill. If they would treat a sworn officer like a criminal, I don't need to go back.
    This isn't really about NY or NYC. The guy in jail had the ability to legally carry, and had he done so, had he brought his LEO badge/ID with him, had he made it known at the outset that he was a peace officer, perhaps (no one can be sure) the situation would not have deteriorated. He had plenty of cause to display both badge and gun the instant he was punched. He could have identified himself before he was punched.

    I'm just pointing out that the story we have been discussing in this thread is not related to the reciprocity issues.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    This isn't really about NY or NYC. The guy in jail had the ability to legally carry, and had he done so, had he brought his LEO badge/ID with him, had he made it known at the outset that he was a peace officer, perhaps (no one can be sure) the situation would not have deteriorated. He had plenty of cause to display both badge and gun the instant he was punched. He could have identified himself before he was punched.

    I'm just pointing out that the story we have been discussing in this thread is not related to the reciprocity issues.
    Oh absolutely, but it does reiterate the fact that NY should be avoided.
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    Mutual combat? Disparity? Confusing situation, indeed




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  16. #30
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    This is just sickening, I feel so bad for the ex-cop

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