Bad, Ugly, Weird: CCW holder shoots LEO (in full uniform)

Bad, Ugly, Weird: CCW holder shoots LEO (in full uniform)

This is a discussion on Bad, Ugly, Weird: CCW holder shoots LEO (in full uniform) within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Thomas (the CCW holder) shot Roach three times when the officer was in full uniform, fracturing Roach's rib, piercing both arms and shattering a cellphone ...

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Thread: Bad, Ugly, Weird: CCW holder shoots LEO (in full uniform)

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Bad, Ugly, Weird: CCW holder shoots LEO (in full uniform)

    Thomas (the CCW holder) shot Roach three times when the officer was in full uniform, fracturing Roach's rib, piercing both arms and shattering a cellphone in a pocket above the officer's heart. Why? He said he thought the officer was a crook.

    Thomas, a DeKalb County merchant who at that moment was a victim of crime, said he believed the officer to be part of a robbing crew with which he had just exchanged gunfire. Roach (the LEO), who had just left work in his Chevy Tahoe, heard the gunfire and drew his .40-caliber Smith & Wesson on a fleeing Thomas, the only man he saw with a gun.
    This is quite a story... If you look at it from the aspect of the CCW holder who says:

    ... he only sought to protect himself but made a horrible mistake prompted by fear, confusion and adrenaline.
    I'm sure Thomas will be found guilty of something... but just read the article carefully, and try to imagine being in the process of being robbed at gunpoint, firing on the BG who has a gun aimed at you, running to the nearest public place and asking them to call the cops... you are heavily under the influence of adrenaline... And another guy comes at you with gun drawn...

    In the middle of a gun fight, where you are afraid for your life... I can see it from the CCW holder's perspective as it's written.. Do I believe he shot the cop, knowing he was a cop? I honestly don't know... in the midst of a true adrenaline dump, with tunnel vision, weird auditory warpage, and all the other stuff that really does happen in a "good, heavy" Adrenaline Dump (from personal experience)... I can honestly say the CCW may not have realized the LEO was a LEO...

    Anyway, here's the story from Police One... and it's well written and unbiased... >>>LINK<<<

    At least they caught the real badguys, and the officer, while wounded, is still alive... but the CCW holder is ruined... one way or another...
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    I'll withhold judgment for now because there is sure to be a lot more to come out of this story.
    "Was there no end to the conspiracy of irrational prejudice against Red Ryder and his peacemaker?"

    Revolvers, “more elegant weapons for a more civilized age.”

  3. #3
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    That whole story is just crazy. Wow.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammerjammer View Post
    I'll withhold judgment for now because there is sure to be a lot more to come out of this story.
    I don't think there's too much more to come out... it's in trial right now...
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    That whole story is just crazy. Wow.
    All the misfires and jams from LEO's gun... The whole scene IS just crazy... I can't imagine.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  6. #6
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    It seriously reads like a movie script.

    but the reporting sucks

    Roach's ( the officer) pistol malfunctioned after one shot and ejected the clip.
    Say what? Did he have a light primer strike? A FTF or FTE? Did he do a clearing drill? or did he hit the mag release under stress or was the mag not fully seated before he even drew the weapon?

    While Melvin's wife, Paulette, called 911 — the dispatcher placed her on hold — it was Melvin who reacted. He recovered Roach's pistol, pointed it at Thomas and pulled the trigger.

    Misfire. He cocked the gun and pulled the trigger again. Again nothing. He then began pistol-whipping Thomas.
    I would love to see the report on this. I am under the impression that Atlanta PD carries the M&P. But again that is just an impression.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array kerberos's Avatar
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    Just another example of why as concealed carriers, we need to train in a way that induces the "adrenaline dump" so we know how to handle it.
    kb2wji likes this.
    "Death is lighter than a feather, but Duty is heavier than a mountain" Robert Jordan
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    Senior Member Array WD54241's Avatar
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    Wow! agreed better to wait on this one. Feel real bad for both of them.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    It seriously reads like a movie script.

    but the reporting sucks



    Say what? Did he have a light primer strike? A FTF or FTE? Did he do a clearing drill? or did he hit the mag release under stress or was the mag not fully seated before he even drew the weapon?



    I would love to see the report on this. I am under the impression that Atlanta PD carries the M&P. But again that is just an impression.
    I wouldn't get wrapped up about the details of the malfunction. He was trying to report the pertinent information (gun malfunctioned) how is not important to the story. I do wonder how the "clip" got ejected. If I put a clip in my semi I would have problems too LOL. But I bet a MAGAZINE was never put back in. That is why it didn;t fire again
    accessbob likes this.

  10. #10
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I wouldn't get wrapped up about the details of the malfunction. He was trying to report the pertinent information (gun malfunctioned) how is not important to the story. I do wonder how the "clip" got ejected. If I put a clip in my semi I would have problems too LOL. But I bet a MAGAZINE was never put back in. That is why it didn;t fire again
    Like I said, the reporting sucks. An officers equipment failing is extremely pertinent to the story.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerberos View Post
    Just another example of why as concealed carriers, we need to train in a way that induces the "adrenaline dump" so we know how to handle it.
    And how are we supposed to do this? My local range doesn't even allow practicing drawing and firing. Its a nice thought but how am I supposed to induce an adrenaline dump while I am training?
    "Was there no end to the conspiracy of irrational prejudice against Red Ryder and his peacemaker?"

    Revolvers, “more elegant weapons for a more civilized age.”

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array kerberos's Avatar
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    May have to travel depending on where you live. I was referring to "force on force" "defensive hangun combat" type courses.
    Local CCHL instructor here is also affiliated with Suarez International. Google it to see if there are any locally or call local instructors to see if there is anyone offering this type of training.

    http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/
    Last edited by kerberos; February 10th, 2012 at 12:23 PM. Reason: added link
    "Death is lighter than a feather, but Duty is heavier than a mountain" Robert Jordan
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    Who fired first is a matter of contention, but Roach's pistol malfunctioned after one shot and ejected the clip.
    Indeed, this just sounds...false. The odds would indicate that the officer either inadvertantly hit the mag release, or that it wasn't properly seated in the first place - and probably the former. Thankfully his pistol didn't have a mag disconnect "safety," and he was at least able to get one round off. Good on the bystander/vet for intervening, and for figuring out what was wrong with the weapon.

    And it IS bad reporting. The reporter calls an empty weapon (no mag, the one in the chamber already fired) failing to fire a "misfire." That is patently false - the gun worked exactly as it was designed to. No gun that I know of is capable of firing without ammunition...

    And I agree - this is a strange and sad story. It appears that the officer was doing the right thing, and that the CCW holder was trying to do the right thing. He just made a very, very serious error in judgement. Seeing as I have tattoos on my forearms, I certainly hope that some CCW holder doesn't take that as carte blanche to shoot me!
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array high pockets's Avatar
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    I apologize in advance, but I just couldn't pass this up.

    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    .... Seeing as I have tattoos on my forearms, I certainly hope that some CCW holder doesn't take that as carte blanche to shoot me!
    I see you are in D.C,, so you won't have to worry, no one in D.C. is allowed to carry a weapon anyway.!
    64zebra likes this.
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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by high pockets View Post
    I apologize in advance, but I just couldn't pass this up.



    I see you are in D.C,, so you won't have to worry, no one in D.C. is allowed to carry a weapon anyway.!
    That is why it is safe there, just like Chicago
    kerberos, Paymeister and 64zebra like this.

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