Bad: "Police with a warrant" invade home

Bad: "Police with a warrant" invade home

This is a discussion on Bad: "Police with a warrant" invade home within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; On Feb. 23 at 11:30 p.m., two suspects, posing as police officers with an alleged search warrant, entered a home in the 300 block of ...

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Thread: Bad: "Police with a warrant" invade home

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Bad: "Police with a warrant" invade home

    On Feb. 23 at 11:30 p.m., two suspects, posing as police officers with an alleged search warrant, entered a home in the 300 block of South Fillmore Street and demanded cash and jewelry
    Brief Story Here

    People must have very guilty consciences. If someone came to my house claiming to be LEO with a search warrant... I'd be incredulous enough to check.

    I could be wrong, maybe it's not guilt; but "old school" respect for the lawman... misplaced nowadays because of so many fakes bustin' in doors & robbing people.


    Oh, wait..! It gets better!

    Apparently in this case, the homeowner did have a guilty conscience... See, he was arrested last December on two counts of bank robbery!

    Better story here
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose


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    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    come on......real police would have been 3 hours later with a no-knock

    at 11:30 even Jethro would know they weren't the real police despite, or because of, the uniforms.
    Arthritis sucks big-big
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    VIP Member Array JDE101's Avatar
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    If someone beats on my door claiming to be police with a warrant, I'm yelling back that I'm calling 911 to verify that the police are supposed to be at my address--because I know I haven't done anything to "warrant" a warrant! They either have the wrong address or it isn't the police! I respect law and authority, but if I know I haven't done anything wrong, I'm not opening the door and if they break in, I'm shooting!
    Stubborn likes this.
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    Since I engage in no illegal activity, should I assume they really aren't police and react accordingly when they come a-no-knockin'?
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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    Senior Member Array WD54241's Avatar
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    I guess his life style caught up with him!

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    If I had $12,000 cash in the house, my dog would rob me. Proceeds from the bank robbery weren't equitably divided.
    claude clay likes this.
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    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDE101 View Post
    If someone beats on my door claiming to be police with a warrant, I'm yelling back that I'm calling 911 to verify that the police are supposed to be at my address--because I know I haven't done anything to "warrant" a warrant! They either have the wrong address or it isn't the police! I respect law and authority, but if I know I haven't done anything wrong, I'm not opening the door and if they break in, I'm shooting!
    You don't have to do anything wrong, they may just be at the wrong address or was the result of a bad tip by an informer. I think its dangerous to you to have a gun in hand when the police announce themselves. When someone knocks at my door, I put my pistol in a Remora holster at my small of back before I answer it. That prevents me from scaring a neighbor or getting shot by the police, yet its ready to draw if I need it. I realize the chances of a law abiding citizen being the target of a mistaken no knock warrant is probably about the same (I guess) as winning the lottery. If you start shooting just because you don't think its really the police just because you know you haven't done anything wrong, well I think you would have a good chance of being tried for killing a police officer at best, and being shot DRT at worst.
    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chesafreak View Post
    I realize the chances of a law abiding citizen being the target of a mistaken no knock warrant is probably about the same (I guess) as winning the lottery.
    Stats again LOL. I ain't dis agreeing with ya. Odds are of me dying from a firearm is .025 percent to begin with. In my own home it is about .0017 percent. Now if we went by stats then why do we carry at all? Because it can happen.
    I am with the mindset if somebody knocks on my door with a warrant I am calling the police first for the reasons stated above-I have done nothing wrong. Let me ask this: what is more common, a mistake by the police with the wrong address or BG's faking police? Hmmmm I ain't assuming it is the cops.
    If it is a no knock and I have a second to determine if it is a cop or not in the middle of the night all bets are off.
    JDE101 likes this.

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    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    If it is a no knock and I have a second to determine if it is a cop or not in the middle of the night all bets are off.
    That's exactly why I was trying to discourage JDE101 from shooting when someone announces "Police" and then breaks down the door with the mindset that since he didn't do anything wrong it cant be the police. In that scenario you would be in a no-win situation if you shot and killed the popo. I'm not saying "dont be armed", I'm just saying it may be better to conceal it when you greet the "police" breaking down your door. That way there wont be any tragedy if it really is the police, and if not, you wait for an opportunity (distraction) to draw your weapon. Just my two cents on how I would handle that scenario. To each his own.
    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chesafreak View Post
    That's exactly why I was trying to discourage JDE101 from shooting when someone announces "Police" and then breaks down the door with the mindset that since he didn't do anything wrong it cant be the police. In that scenario you would be in a no-win situation if you shot and killed the popo. I'm not saying "dont be armed", I'm just saying it may be better to conceal it when you greet the "police" breaking down your door. That way there wont be any tragedy if it really is the police, and if not, you wait for an opportunity (distraction) to draw your weapon. Just my two cents on how I would handle that scenario. To each his own.
    Good luck with that.

    Heck, good luck with trying to call and confirm... If it's Mr. LEO for real, and he thinks you're a BG, your yelling thru the door "I'm calling 911 to confirm" might end up with the door kicked in anyway, depending on the nature of his warrant... (no knocks being used to eliminate the destruction of evidence). If it's Mr. LEO for real and you be standing there with a gun drawn, you're probably DRT.

    If you've got it in the small of your back, and either real or fake LEO crash in, see you standing there... they should secure you first... they'll find the weapon. there won't be no distraction. Fake LEO you'd have a slim chance with... real LEO, not so much.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    Here's a theoretical question for the group. Assume you are in a Castle Doctrine state and the cops do a no-knock on your house. Further assume that the cops made a mistake and you were not a legitimate target of their raid. Finally, assume that your sleep addled brain did not catch their shouts that they are the police.

    You awake to the sounds of the cops breaking down your front door. You grab your EDC and hunker down in your locked bedroom. The cops, assuming they have already communicated who they are (but you did not hear it due to being asleep at the time) bust into your room. You shoot at the first cop coming in the door and let’s assume you survive.

    What law trumps the other?

    1. Castle doctrine – you had a right to be there and the cops did not (assume you are not in IN).
    2. Laws against shooting police

    I realize that the odds of having such an event are infinitesimally small, but this has occurred and should concern all armed citizens.
    "I've noticed that everyone that is pro-abortion has already been born." - Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Since I engage in no illegal activity, should I assume they really aren't police and react accordingly when they come a-no-knockin'?
    Only if you want to die for nothing.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    Here's a theoretical question for the group. Assume you are in a Castle Doctrine state and the cops do a no-knock on your house. Further assume that the cops made a mistake and you were not a legitimate target of their raid. Finally, assume that your sleep addled brain did not catch their shouts that they are the police.

    You awake to the sounds of the cops breaking down your front door. You grab your EDC and hunker down in your locked bedroom. The cops, assuming they have already communicated who they are (but you did not hear it due to being asleep at the time) bust into your room. You shoot at the first cop coming in the door and let’s assume you survive.

    What law trumps the other?

    1. Castle doctrine – you had a right to be there and the cops did not (assume you are not in IN).
    2. Laws against shooting police

    I realize that the odds of having such an event are infinitesimally small, but this has occurred and should concern all armed citizens.
    What ifs.... what if the homeowner is somewhat deaf as well as asleep.

    There are things for which there simply are no single good answers or combinations of things that will add up to perfect solutions. I am positive that there are circumstances in which no-knock is entirely appropriate, and therefore I am 100% certain
    that mistakes will be made-- fortunately rarely. Like driving on the interstate in back of a tractor trailer. Sometimes they get a blowout or loose a load. All you can do is hope you aren't there.

    My wife puts it this way, "when its your time an airplane will come through the roof."
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Senior Member Array Freedom Doc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    Here's a theoretical question for the group. Assume you are in a Castle Doctrine state and the cops do a no-knock on your house. Further assume that the cops made a mistake and you were not a legitimate target of their raid. Finally, assume that your sleep addled brain did not catch their shouts that they are the police.

    You awake to the sounds of the cops breaking down your front door. You grab your EDC and hunker down in your locked bedroom. The cops, assuming they have already communicated who they are (but you did not hear it due to being asleep at the time) bust into your room. You shoot at the first cop coming in the door and let’s assume you survive.

    What law trumps the other?

    1. Castle doctrine – you had a right to be there and the cops did not (assume you are not in IN).
    2. Laws against shooting police

    I realize that the odds of having such an event are infinitesimally small, but this has occurred and should concern all armed citizens.
    As long as we are speaking of what is "legal", what about the 4th amendment to the constitution? Police are not supposed to be doing these no-knock home invasions in the first place. The fact that they do it anyway is what brings us to this: with the crooks pretending to be the police.
    Anti-gunners seem to believe that if we just pass enough laws, we can have utopia. Unfortunately, utopia is NOT one of our choices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom Doc View Post
    As long as we are speaking of what is "legal", what about the 4th amendment to the constitution? Police are not supposed to be doing these no-knock home invasions in the first place. The fact that they do it anyway is what brings us to this: with the crooks pretending to be the police.
    Uh, the 4th does not address no-knock searches. It addresses the need for a warrant to be issued based on evidence and stating
    the thing that is being looked for. There is nothing about the method to be used. Our courts have almost unanimously (at both the state and Federal level) agreed that there is no constitutional issue with no-knock searches.

    That doesn't mean they should be used as extensively as they are; as carelessly as they sometimes appear to be; but
    the manner by which the search is done isn't addressed.

    FindLaw: U.S. Constitution: Fourth Amendment

    Here is a very good discussion of the 4th --- Fourth Amendment legal definition of Fourth Amendment. Fourth Amendment synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

    Don't be misled by the word dictionary, the url leads to an encyclopedia like set of commentary.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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