I don't think this will be a success......

I don't think this will be a success......

This is a discussion on I don't think this will be a success...... within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; From thedenverchannel.com http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...50/detail.html I don't think this is going to work out well for the shooter, based on police statements. Fort Collins, and Larimer County ...

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Thread: I don't think this will be a success......

  1. #1
    Member Array luv_jeeps's Avatar
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    I don't think this will be a success......

    From thedenverchannel.com


    I don't think this is going to work out well for the shooter, based on police statements.

    Fort Collins, and Larimer County in general have always been very pro-ccw.

    FORT COLLINS, Colo. -- The homeowner, Steven Ray, said that barking dogs woke him up at about 1:50 a.m.

    Ray, 58, said he tried to turn on the house lights and call police but there was no power to the home. Police said an unrelated power outage impacted the area from 12:29 p.m. until 3:56 a.m. That outage was the result of a cable failure, police said.

    Because he couldn't see anything or call for help, Ray said he armed himself with a .45-caliber handgun and stopped a man in his back yard. He struggled with the man and eventually shot him as he tried to run away, police said.
    "There were several shots that were fired, however, he was struck once," said Rita Davis with Fort Collins police.

    That man was identified as 28-year-old David Ebner, an applications engineer at Woodward Governor. Ebner was found by police 20 minutes later, approximately 100 yards away from the home in a vacant lot.

    Ebner was transported to Poudre Valley Hospital by ambulance, where he is being treated for his injuries. He is in the intensive care unit at the hospital in stable condition.

    "We need to find out why he was there," said Davis.

    Ebner's neighbors said they are shocked by the incident and will be even more shocked if he is charged.

  2. #2
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    Array rocky's Avatar
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    While shooting someone running away isn't good, why was the stranger in the backyard so late ? Why did a struggle start? Seems lots missing from the story.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson

    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  3. #3
    Ex Member Array Ghost Who Walks's Avatar
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    He engaged the man in a physical scuffle, the man tried to run away, and he shot him. The victim turns out to be a gainfully employed professional engineer.

    What's wrong with this picture?

    Hey, Rocky, 'Nemo Me Impune Lacesset!' Read Edgar Allen do ya; or, are you just a Scotsman? ;)

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  5. #4
    VIP Member (Retired Staff) Array P95Carry's Avatar
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    Hmmm - info incomplete so far.

    Why a struggle anyways? Who started that?

    Need more data. Sounds tricky tho so far.
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."

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  6. #5
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    Array Thumper's Avatar
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    Yeah, not enough info for sure but...
    If I see someone in my yard late at night and they are running away, in most situations, I'm likely to just let them go and call the police.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
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  7. #6
    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    With the exception of Denver and Boulder PDs, LEOs here in CO are fairly pro-CCW.

    If the guy really was running away, then it's a bad shoot. Sometimes during a struggle it's possible to shoot someone more or less in the back, but still be in danger from them. Also, was he running towards the house, or towards a weapon like a shovel or stick on the ground?

    Also, these questions remain; what was Mr. Engineer doing in the yard, and how did the fight start?
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    The question is...did the shooter know the guy was running away (i.e. to flee) or run out of grasp and reattack? or to possibly get a weapon?

    There is agreement that the article is short on facts, but being woken up at 2am, no power, barking dogs (alerting the homeowner to possible BGs)...is enough to raise me to orange...but going outside is probably a *bad* idea.

    I'd probably hunker down, load up, check windows and doors, get on the cell and call 911 (possible prowler/robbery/burglarly in progress) and/or utility company asking ***.

    Mike in VA

  9. #8
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    If the guy was running away it's not going to go well for the shooter!

    Hope if someone sees any updates they'll post them for us.

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  10. #9
    Member Array luv_jeeps's Avatar
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    Not much new information. I will post back if/when new details come in.


    from http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?O...7-c589c01ca7bf
    FORT COLLINS (AP) - Police haven't decided if charges will be filed against a homeowner who shot an intruder early Monday as he was trying to flee.

    Police say 58-year-old Steven Ray armed himself with a 45-caliber handgun and confronted 28-year-old David Ebner in Ray's backyard.

    They say the two men struggled before Ray shot Ebner as he fled.

    Officers found Ebner in a vacant lot about 100 yards away from the home. He was transported to a hospital where he is being treated for his injuries.

    Colorado's "make my day" law allows occupants to use deadly force when they have reason to believe an intruder might harm an occupant of the home.

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    Not enough info.

    What if the guy had worked for the power company?
    What if the homeowner surprised and tackled the intruder without warning?
    What if....

    Need more facts for this one. Somethin doesn't sound right.
    The Gunsite Blog
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    "It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon." - Justice Scalia, SCOTUS - DC v Heller - 26 JUN 2008

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Thats exactly what I figured.

    If the guy were on the job for the power/gas/telco and thus by law allowed to access his property and yard...then homeowner runs out and tackles or pushes him from behind out of the blue. So the engnineer of course fights back to his own defense not knowing that the dude isn't some community crazy. Next thing you know a statement of "I'm gonna cap your ass!" comes from between the lips of the homeowner to which the worker hears and decides to get the heck out of Dodge beating feet fast as he can, no doubt in a straight line.
    Pop pop pop...pop pop
    Kapow he's knocked the heck out and bleeding in a local parking lot.

    Battery backup external lighting and/or a high lumen handheld illuminator FTW.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  13. #12
    Ex Member Array Ghost Who Walks's Avatar
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    Well, I wasn’t going to say it; but, it looks like Mr. Ray violated one of the cardinal rules of personal self-defense:


    Under the described circumstances, Mr. Ray didn’t really need to arm himself; and, he certainly shouldn’t have gone outside with a pistol in his belt just to, ‘see what was going on’ – That was an invitation for disaster!

    It’s been my general experience that if you give a man a gun and tell him to go take a look, he will not, just, take a look; instead, he will tend to point that gun at anything he sees. (I call this curious intellectual quirk, ‘cowboy with a gun syndrome’.)

    I’ve said this before: Give some people a gun, and they’ll look for ANY excuse to use it! There’s always a problem whenever somebody allows himself to feel, ‘empowered’ by possession of a firearm.

    Mr. Ray wouldn’t like life, here, in the Poconos. Several power outages a year that sometimes last for a day, or more. Coyotes, bears, and (at my place) two completely unpredictable 800 # + buffaloes that have an unsettling habit of suddenly appearing anywhere on the property, at anytime, and think they own the place.

    I learned many years ago not to make the serious self-defense mistake of attempting to go to the problem. You go outside, only, when you’re absolutely required to do so. Late night property sweeps are – at the least - best conducted by multiple individuals who know how to keep an eye on each other. Ideally, property sweeps should be carried out by uniformed officers who are trained and equipped to handle this type of situation.

    If a homeowner has to call the police during a property search, he is already in personal danger! If, in the same situation, a police officer has to call for backup, then, it’s a tactical delay that's he's been trained to deal with. This is one of the reasons, ‘Why’ the NRA encourages homeowners to set up a, ‘safe room’.

    Mr. Ray, also, broke another important self-defense rule that applies to situations like this:


    In the alternative, if you stay inside and force the threat to come toward you, then, you’ll be in your own familiar environment; there will be nothing to give you away; and, you’ll have the viable option of engaging at stairwells or in hallways. (Two of the very worst places to, ever, have to be the guy who gets to fire second!)

    The last comment I’ll offer is that Mr. Ray, also, broke another cardinal rule of personal self-defense: He, rather obviously, broke


    Not schmart! If Mr. Ray hadn’t broken, at least, three cardinal self-defense rules he never would have had to use that pistol; and, he wouldn’t be facing grand jury indictment, today.
    Last edited by Ghost Who Walks; August 29th, 2006 at 05:47 PM.

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    Going outside was the first mistake!

    Not having a cell phone (if only for emergency purposes) is another first mistake.

    Everything else is just speculation at this point!

    Train and train hard, you might not get a second chance to make a first impression!

    I vote for Monica Lewinsky's Ex-Boyfriend's Wife for President.....Not!

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