Bad - Man shot by Washington County tactical officers was armed

Bad - Man shot by Washington County tactical officers was armed

This is a discussion on Bad - Man shot by Washington County tactical officers was armed within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; The man shot by Washington County tactical officers in New Columbia Tuesday night had grabbed a gun because he thought intruders were on his property ...

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Thread: Bad - Man shot by Washington County tactical officers was armed

  1. #1
    Member Array Arejay's Avatar
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    Bad - Man shot by Washington County tactical officers was armed

    The man shot by Washington County tactical officers in New Columbia Tuesday night had grabbed a gun because he thought intruders were on his property after his wife had checked on their barking dog in their backyard and saw a stranger in dark clothing.

    Alberto Flores-Haro, according to relatives and witnesses, did not know that the men surrounding his home and neighborhood Tuesday night were authorities approaching to raid a residence just a few doors down from his home in the 9500 block of North Woolsey Avenue.


    "There was someone in our backyard, and my mom called our stepdad," said Daniel Ibarra. "He told me to go upstairs and get the gun."

    Ibarra, 17, said he didn't know where it was, and Flores-Haro followed him up the stairs and retrieved it. Ibarra said a stranger came through the home, and left through the front door.


    See article for more information: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...on_county.html
    Last edited by JD; March 17th, 2012 at 12:12 AM.


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arejay View Post

    "There was someone in our backyard, and my mom called our stepdad," said Daniel Ibarra. "He told me to go upstairs and get the gun."

    Ibarra, 17, said he didn't know where it was, and Flores-Haro followed him up the stairs and retrieved it. Ibarra said a stranger came through the home, and left through the front door..

    If the part in bold is true the way I see it the the cops screwed up big time they had no business inside someone elses home, only the house and address on the warrant. This whole thing is why I don't like the militarizing of the police.

    Quote" Police also said that the officers "repeatedly identified themselves as law enforcement officers.''
    Something LEO always say they did but lots of GGs are not hearing them say it, maybe they need training on making themselves heard. I'm thinking most LE in these special units don't care if they are or not (they are to LAW) their thinking is you bow before me.
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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    I am curious when they did finaly serve the warrant later in the evening if it was a no knock? Or if they did a regular one.

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    This is bad indeed... Lots of mistakes by both parties
    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

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    Member Array W9HDG's Avatar
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    Bad is right. If the part about the stranger going through the house is true, especially in the dark, that was a major no no by the officer in question that could've cost him his life had someone been ready for it.

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    The dog barking and a stranger in the back yard indicate gathering the family in a safe room and dialing 911. Exposing to ambush usually ends poorly. I hope he recovers soon.
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    I'm sure I would have been very reassured by a dispatcher saying "Don't worry. There's a police action going on tonight."

    Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! I am the great and powerful Oz!
    ksholder likes this.
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  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array kapnketel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunthorp View Post
    The dog barking and a stranger in the back yard indicate gathering the family in a safe room and dialing 911. Exposing to ambush usually ends poorly. I hope he recovers soon.
    My thoughts exactly. You do not go outside and confront/threaten a person becasue they might be an intruder.
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    Member Array GrandBob's Avatar
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    Ibarra said his family had no idea that the men surrounding their home in tactical uniforms of army green were from the Washington County Sheriff's Office's Tactical Negotiation Team, who were assisting police.
    Note to self:
    When house is surrounded by uniformed men with guns, dont go confront them with a pistol...

    He said of his dad, "I think he just wanted to scare them away. He didn't know who they were."
    He found out the hard way. It's possible that he couldnt speak or understand English. Big mistake.

    Police also said that the officers "repeatedly identified themselves as law enforcement officers.''
    What else could they do? Show training certificates? Academy class pictures?


    Another resident who asked not to be named said she was lying in bed when she heard six to seven gunshots. "I grabbed my phone to call police and noticed they were already all outside," she said.
    At least someone figured it out...

    Ibarra, 17, said he didn't know where it was, and Flores-Haro followed him up the stairs and retrieved it. Ibarra said a stranger came through the home, and left through the front door..
    I didnt see this part in the story posted.

    A shooting just took place. You'd better beleive that the cops would go throught the residence and secure it. Not only is it standard procedure, but it would be totally foolish not to.

    I'm thinking most LE in these special units don't care if they are or not (they are to LAW) their thinking is you bow before me
    I'm thinking that most LEO's is these special units that gun up, study and have a pre job breif and then descend upon a scene expecting violence, and a guy shows up at a door with a pistol and does not drop it after police identify themselves is going to get shot...but thats just me.

    Yeah, there were screw ups made here, but it wasnt by the cops.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandBob View Post
    Note to self:
    When house is surrounded by uniformed men with guns, dont go confront them with a pistol...



    He found out the hard way. It's possible that he couldnt speak or understand English. Big mistake.



    What else could they do? Show training certificates? Academy class pictures?




    At least someone figured it out...



    I didnt see this part in the story posted.

    A shooting just took place. You'd better beleive that the cops would go throught the residence and secure it. Not only is it standard procedure, but it would be totally foolish not to.



    I'm thinking that most LEO's is these special units that gun up, study and have a pre job breif and then descend upon a scene expecting violence, and a guy shows up at a door with a pistol and does not drop it after police identify themselves is going to get shot...but thats just me.

    Yeah, there were screw ups made here, but it wasnt by the cops.
    Haven't you ever heard of stressful situations, tunnel vision, adrenalin? You are making a lot assumptions and since when is not speaking English a mistake?
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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Question for LEO's: (Disclaimer:This is not a for or against no-knocks, my feelings are known on that issue). Tactical question. Assuming the article is factual. That this occured around 10PM. Wouldn't going through folks yards and getting dogs to bark not be the best tactical move? I have zero experience as a LEO in this situation but have experience in the military. If we were going to a BG's house to get him or if a hostage situation we would have known if the house near or next to it had a dog or kids in the backyard. The lady said she went to check on her dog barking in the backyard and saw a figure.
    Even during SERE courses you are taught to not get near houses at night particularly because of dogs. Heck, on this forum we tell everybody to get a dog to be their first alert. I have planned stuff like this and that was a serious consideration. In denied areas we would do the utmost to check out the neighborhood/village. I don't see how the LEO's in the planning process did not forsee this and having the advvnatage of being in a friendlier environment did not know about the dog. I know, we weren't there, anything can go wrong. I get that. But I mean, it was like right up there as a big thing to check out, as well as kids that love to screw up the best of plans. Looking forward to your replies.
    Going into a situation like this and if they knew of a possible compromise can and do LEO's sometimes go to a house and let the folks know what is going on? In this case possibly the house with the dog? Of course making sure they can't alert the BG

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    Quote Originally Posted by W9HDG View Post
    Bad is right. If the part about the stranger going through the house is true, especially in the dark, that was a major no no by the officer in question that could've cost him his life had someone been ready for it.
    That is assuming it was one of the officers. I do not believe we have enough information to support that assumption. All we know is that it was someone the resident did not recognize. I would expect that if the stranger had been decked out in full ninja garb they would have mentioned it or just stated that it was an officer.

    Mr. Flores-Haro went looking for trouble and he found it. Hopefully he will learn from his mistake and make a full recovery.
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    Utter and complete and total disagreement with the tone, tenor, and intent of post 9.

    Maybe I am having trouble following the story or maybe it is just too poorly written, but who was it that
    ran through their home? Was it the guy being served or an officer who ran through a house he had no
    business being in--no warrant, no hot pursuit of an evading person.

    Home owner used bad judgment going outside; so too everyone else involved.

    What the h is this: "We saw the big SWAT tank and a lot of officers in army green suits, helmets and shields,"
    Editorial thought: CUT IT OUT. Dress like officers not army. Act like officers. I'd love to see a few of
    those army green suits and what if anything is marked on them in large enough font to be seen by someone distant?
    If the shields and helmets were appropriately marked, the "army green suits" appropriately marked, and
    the uniforms more standard -- you know, NYPD BLUE, maybe this wouldn't have happened.

    From my viewpoint this was negligent planning and negligent operation which precipitated the exit from the
    house (however stupid that was) and the shooting-- also maybe stupid given it was from the wrong house--
    and I would not apportion blame away from those who screwed it up to the guy who was shot. UNLESS,
    those uniforms were exceptionally well marked and not mere army green with tiny name tags in the front
    and the word "police" in the back from which it could not be seen.

    There is a reason for wearing uniforms that are in fact uniform.
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    Member Array GrandBob's Avatar
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    You are making a lot assumptions and since when is not speaking English a mistake?
    It is a mistake when you live in an English speaking country and the cops are speaking English.

    Act like officers. I'd love to see a few of
    those army green suits and what if anything is marked on them in large enough font to be seen by someone distant?
    Ummm... not sure what to think about this post.
    Most of the Sheriffs around here wear "Army Green". With patches and names all over them that are hard to miss.

    There is a reason for wearing uniforms that are in fact uniform.
    That is exactly right. Being too stupid to recognize it could get you shot.
    Being too stupid to see a uniformed man holding a gun on you screaming for you to drop it could get you shot.
    Seeing a bunch of them holding guns on you and not responding can get you shot.


    From my viewpoint this was negligent planning and negligent operation which precipitated the exit from the
    house (however stupid that was) and the shooting-- also maybe stupid given it was from the wrong house--
    and I would not apportion blame away from those who screwed it up to the guy who was shot
    I'd be willing to bet that when the smoke clears, the Officers will be no billed.

    How would you expect them to act?

    Negligent planning? Are you qualified to speak of such or is just the opinion of an chairborne ranger that beleives everything that they read from a paper?
    What is your background? Have you ever participated in such an event? I think not or you would know that much planning is done before the execution of a warrant. They just dont get together and say, "hey lets go serve a warrant on this guy". It takes a lot of time,effort and planning to have several depts. come together. Leaders must be established as well as protocol. Logistics must be discussed. None of this happens on the spur of the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    There is a reason for wearing uniforms that are in fact uniform.
    ^^^^^THIS!!!^^^^^^

    Also, I will not be going outside to confront anyone. I will be on the phone. If strangers attempt to invade my home, I will do whatever it takes to protect my family.
    W9HDG likes this.
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