Gecko45 like mess up & or manslaughter/ shoplifting gone bad

This is a discussion on Gecko45 like mess up & or manslaughter/ shoplifting gone bad within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Hopyard I would think what needs to be investigated is whether or not there was actually a shop lifting in the first ...

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Thread: Gecko45 like mess up & or manslaughter/ shoplifting gone bad

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I would think what needs to be investigated is whether or not there was actually a shop lifting in the first place; then maybe
    the value can be looked into for whatever relevance that might have.

    For all I know there was a SL as alleged and it is crystal clear from the cameras. OTOH, for all anyone knows, an innocent was taken in the back, ganged on, and he used his lawful right to self defense unsuccessfully.

    There is not enough to go on from the news stories, so no jumping to conclusions either way.

    A number of people have posted to our local tv station's web site that the man was working 2 jobs, was a good guy,
    that priors were (depending on which post you read) trivial.

    I have no special interest in the case, or knowledge of it except that it happened where I sometimes shop.

    One post on the TV web site says the LP person who shot him was fired by WM.
    I don't know if that is true or not. I don't know what if anything might be inferred from that.

    What I'm driving at is that the news people, and the initial police reports, may have much of the situation wrong; or not.

    If there was no theft, we are talking about SD and manslaughter. Even if there was theft, we (the folks who live here)
    need to know that he wasn't ganged on back in their little room.

    Part of your post I put in bold might be irrelevant. Many of us would bring a gun and a knife on our shopping trips. That doesn't by itself show he planned to use them in the manner alleged, or that he shop lifted in the first place.

    My hope is that there is adequate video of everything that happened and that justice will be done, either way.
    (My turn at the computer!)
    I think one of the few things you and I generally agree on is the quality and reliability of information from the news media!

    My experience with Walmart loss prevention was at internal affairs as a union rep for one of my coworkers. This person was making a good living, had two kids, active in their church, spouse owned a sucessful business. They had been with the department three years and on my shift for two. I didn't believe this person was a thief. Until I saw the video, that is. They had bought about $150 worth of stuff, but had concealed $20 worth of cosmetics. The video even showed them looking around to see if anyone was watching. It was a slam dunk. They had all their ducks in a row.
    I was talking with the Sgt afterwards and she told me that the LP supervisor told her that if they are not sure they will let someone walk. Grabbing someone and being wrong is going to cost them a lot more in a settlement than letting a few CD's walk out the door.

    Do we know if he had a CHL or if he was carrying illegally? As interesting a question as that may be it really might not matter.

    If there was in fact a shoplifitng, he could not argue self defense,
    From 9.31:
    (3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
    If there was no shoplifting,
    (c) The use of force to resist an arrest or search is justified:

    (1) if, before the actor offers any resistance, the peace officer (or person acting at his direction) uses or attempts to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest or search; and

    (2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the peace officer's (or other person's) use or attempted use of greater force than necessary.

    (d) The use of deadly force is not justified under this subchapter except as provided in Sections 9.32, 9.33, and 9.34.
    I am betting that the burden would be on the accused to prove they used greater force before he resisted. If he can't that resistance is just another assault charge against him. But of course if someone died from their resistance that could be a trip to Huntsville and a date with a needle.

    Is there a particular reason folks in your area are concerned about the LP staff at this Walmart? Do they have a reputation or a demonstrated record of physically abusing shoplifting suspects?

    Not knowing any more about the case than what I have read here I agree that more information is needed. But given the totallity of the circumstances as I read them here it seems more likely that it was a shoplifting gone bad and then he pulled weapons in a bid for freedom than the loss prevention staff just happened to pick him out at random to drag him into the back room for a tune up.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    (My turn at the computer!)
    I think one of the few things you and I generally agree on is the quality and reliability of information from the news media!

    My experience with Walmart loss prevention was at internal affairs as a union rep for one of my coworkers. This person was making a good living, had two kids, active in their church, spouse owned a sucessful business. They had been with the department three years and on my shift for two. I didn't believe this person was a thief. Until I saw the video, that is. They had bought about $150 worth of stuff, but had concealed $20 worth of cosmetics. The video even showed them looking around to see if anyone was watching. It was a slam dunk. They had all their ducks in a row.
    I was talking with the Sgt afterwards and she told me that the LP supervisor told her that if they are not sure they will let someone walk. Grabbing someone and being wrong is going to cost them a lot more in a settlement than letting a few CD's walk out the door.

    Do we know if he had a CHL or if he was carrying illegally? As interesting a question as that may be it really might not matter.

    If there was in fact a shoplifitng, he could not argue self defense,
    From 9.31:

    If there was no shoplifting,

    I am betting that the burden would be on the accused to prove they used greater force before he resisted. If he can't that resistance is just another assault charge against him. But of course if someone died from their resistance that could be a trip to Huntsville and a date with a needle.

    Is there a particular reason folks in your area are concerned about the LP staff at this Walmart? Do they have a reputation or a demonstrated record of physically abusing shoplifting suspects?

    Not knowing any more about the case than what I have read here I agree that more information is needed. But given the totallity of the circumstances as I read them here it seems more likely that it was a shoplifting gone bad and then he pulled weapons in a bid for freedom than the loss prevention staff just happened to pick him out at random to drag him into the back room for a tune up.
    A few points, mostly in full agreement with what you wrote.

    1) The section on resisting a peace office might be irrelevant. LP are not certified peace officers, so I don't know if that
    part of the statute would apply. However, a right to SD would be retained if someone were falsely accused and ganged on
    such that they reasonably felt their life was in danger.

    2) As far as I know there is no particular or even rumored reason to suppose there are systematic problems with WM
    LP in our community. They did however have a new employee involved in this, and that leaves doors open to the possibility
    that relevant training and procedures may have not happened, or been followed. However, the news stories give no indication of such and that possibility is mere speculation for the sake of discussion.

    3) I have no clue if the guy was lawfully carrying or committing a crime by carrying, or even if the gun which is
    alleged to have been his was his; same for the knife. I want our police to make public the evidence that the
    dead guy really did what LP are saying he did. I want someone prosecuted if the story turn out to be bogus.

    A tragedy happened, and two kids are left without a dad. It is important that the episode gets all the sunshine
    it possibly can.

    I may write our Mayor yet or give her a call.

    4) I agree with you that it seems likely that this is indeed a shop lifting gone bad. If so, I want our authorities
    to provide ample evidence that they have correctly investigated the incident, and that they have reached
    the logical conclusion.

    And if they think something else happened, then I expect them to take appropriate action and not let a homicide
    get swept under the rug. I do have confidence in our DA's office. I have confidence in our police, but
    this event is too serious to be handled in a casual manner. A very thorough investigation is necessary, and the
    public needs to know what occurred, not what the TV station and local rag say happened.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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