Gecko45 like mess up & or manslaughter/ shoplifting gone bad

This is a discussion on Gecko45 like mess up & or manslaughter/ shoplifting gone bad within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I'm not posting links to the original news story because the two sources I have are both entirely too sketchy and our police too closed ...

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Thread: Gecko45 like mess up & or manslaughter/ shoplifting gone bad

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    Gecko45 like mess up & or manslaughter/ shoplifting gone bad

    I'm not posting links to the original news story because the two sources I have are both entirely too sketchy and our police too closed mouthed, perhaps. These events happened near me yesterday afternoon.

    A man was shot dead at a Walmart. He is alleged to have been a shoplifter, and maybe he was, I suppose investigators will need to establish that.

    Loss control people, according to one account, attempted to get him to a "private room" which he resisted.

    Exactly what happened next, and precisely where, is not clear from our news stories.

    It is alleged that the alleged shoplifter while resisting going to a private area fought with the store personnel and then pulled a gun.

    It is fact that the shoplifter was shot and died shortly later in the hospital.

    The news sources are reporting that he was shot with his own gun wrestled away. (Not sure I believe that).

    OK-- Here are the important issues for discussion, keeping in mind that the situation is not precisely
    known.

    Is it believable that he was shot with his own gun, and not by an armed Gecko?

    Would it be reasonable to shoot him after wrestling his gun from him?
    Keep in mind it was 3 or 4 on 1. Was there any basis left for use of lethal force?

    Was it reasonable for store loss control to attempt to force him to a private room? (Need a TX specific answer).

    For those who are familiar with Walmart, is it policy to disallow loss prevention folks from carrying?

    Again for those familiar with Walmart, is it policy to physically force a suspected shoplifter to a private room? (Texas specific answer is needed.)

    And yet again, for those familiar with Walmart, would we expect there to be good video of what happened? The reporting is somewhat vague as to whether the shooting actually happened in the room or on the way to the room. I don't think the police can piece this together without full video, should we expect that such exists?

    My take on things, given the tiny information available, is that "something ain't right" with the story
    being told. For one thing, the newsy mentioned that one of the men involved was a new hire in
    loss prevention. My gut is telling me these folks screwed up and violated store policy and maybe TX law, and perhaps were not correctly trained. But that is just my guess and speculation.

    And what about an innocent--since this is mere allegation that the dead guy was shoplifting, might
    there have been justified presentation of his weapon? (I know we have discussed similar before, but maybe it is worth going through some of that again.) Even if he was a shoplifter of some petty change item, would he still be able to claim SD if he was the one who succeeded in doing the shooting? Its Walmart after all, no felony theft of an expensive item--and no weapon used in the theft.

    Right now the newsy and TV are portraying this as "shoplifter got shot, " and therefore too bad for him.
    I'm thinking that is perhaps the essence of what occurred, but that there may have been poor decision
    making/policy that add to manslaughter.

    Thoughts?

    ADDED LATER-- Whole story has come out. BG got what he deserved. He pulled a gun on loss prevention folks and when that was taken he pulled a knife. LP shot him with his own gun.
    Last edited by Hopyard; April 21st, 2012 at 01:16 PM.
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    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    I remember reading about this a while back. The SL had a gun and pulled it. the store security said they were defending them self’s when it went off.

    Yes in the state of Texas you can detain a SL until cops come basically it is a citizen’s arrest. As far as the number of people used to detain a SL; we see cops using more than that at times
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    Someone who is resisting can be an awfully big threat to everyone around them. Weapon in hand or not. The use of force really can't be determined easily by people not involved in the dispute.

    Hopefully the security cameras had a good view of the incident. If it was justified, then all should end there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    I remember reading about this a while back. The SL had a gun and pulled it. the store security said they were defending them self’s when it went off.

    Yes in the state of Texas you can detain a SL until cops come basically it is a citizen’s arrest. As far as the number of people used to detain a SL; we see cops using more than that at times
    I'm not discussing an old incident. What I wrote of happened last night. I'm sure we have however discussed similar at various times.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFury View Post
    Someone who is resisting can be an awfully big threat to everyone around them. Weapon in hand or not. The use of force really can't be determined easily by people not involved in the dispute.

    Hopefully the security cameras had a good view of the incident. If it was justified, then all should end there.
    The story is that the alleged SL was disarmed and shot with his own gun. Three on one, against an unarmed man? Was the
    shooting justified?
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    I remember reading about this a while back. The SL had a gun and pulled it. the store security said they were defending them self’s when it went off.

    Yes in the state of Texas you can detain a SL until cops come basically it is a citizen’s arrest. As far as the number of people used to detain a SL; we see cops using more than that at times
    Ah, but can you forcible take him to a hidden area? If he has not left the store, is he a shoplifter? In this particular store
    there are large spaces and several areas within the store where folks can conduct various affairs-- haircut, eyeglasses, snacks,
    all well forward of the registers. I'm not saying he wasn't a SL, I am saying there will need to be solid proof
    or we are talking about manslaughter.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    4 or 5 or 6 people fighting for control of a gun and it goes off....

    nothing strange there.
    nor that the bullet hits one of the rather closely packed bunch of fighting people

    nothing strange there

    -----------------

    move along.....move along people....nothing to see here
    we'll tell you all we think you need to know later
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    I had to. I swear, I tried not to but my fingers took over the keyboard, and......................... I started the Gecko45 'Mall Ninja' thread in the humor section.

    I saw the title to this thread, and said, what the heck!

    May we never forget!
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    Ah, rest of the story came out. The SL got what he deserved, it seems. He was stopped while wheeling a cart of stuff out the door. He was taken to the loss prevention office where he pulled a gun. The gun was taken so he pulled a knife. He got it with his own gun. Good riddance.

    http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/C...148322355.html
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    Senior Member Array mano3's Avatar
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    It was Gecko45. He dropped from the ceiling, shot the SL and then disappeared like the skilled ninja he is. Bless that man...
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    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    This happens a lot with BG's. They always like to point the gun under 2 feet from the person, I don't think they have the knowledge to realize guns can shoot from far away 0_o
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    Good thing the employees were able to obtain the firearm.
    Bet they will review this practice, and try to either get LEO there sooner, maybe even prior to initial contact with the thief.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    Good thing the employees were able to obtain the firearm.
    Bet they will review this practice, and try to either get LEO there sooner, maybe even prior to initial contact with the thief.
    I think they need to do a lot of review of their practices. This could have been a whole lot worse for everyone. It still might
    be really really bad if there turns out to be inadequate evidence of shop lifting in the first place.

    I'm not saying that's the case, but you never know. Bad things can happen with Geckos in charge.

    Nothing has been published about the record or lack thereof of the deceased. He is stated to be 47. That suggests to me
    he is either a professional thief who feared getting yet another conviction, OR---- the door is left ajar to the
    possibility he was falsely held, and somehow felt compelled to try to protect himself with physical force.

    I sincerely hope our gendarmes are totally thorough in their investigation; and totally unbiased against the deceased, and
    get to the bottom of how and why this occurred-- which may be exactly as stated, but strongly suggests a need for
    changed procedures.

    .
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    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    unusaul that one dies 4 hours and 10 minutes after being shot. those here with better medical understanding help me out here--but if
    you survive to get to the hospital plus 30 minutes....most do recover.

    im wondering if his hoodie got in the doctor's way. its not like lowriding pants could have been the trouble.

    a picture alleged to be him was on the net, i wanted to past it and i bookmarked it.
    now its gone. reminds me of the Budweiser shooting in CT when a live interview with a doctor went missing after 3 minutes.
    what he said was that the hospital was put on alert for what turned out to be 'only'8 victums. doc says on camera...."why the alert,
    we have twice that number every weekend; drive-bys and domestics mostly."

    man, they pulled that fast and i've never been able to recover it.
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    As a result of the continued investigation, detectives have determined that Bradshaw attempted to leave the store with a shopping cart of stolen merchandise. Loss prevention officers made contact with Bradshaw and had escorted him to the loss prevention office. While in the office, Bradshaw began to struggle with employees and pulled a handgun from the pocket of his pants. During the struggle, the handgun discharged, with the round striking a filing cabinet. A loss prevention officer was able to take control of Bradshaw’s gun. Bradshaw then pulled a knife and began approaching the loss prevention officer, who then fired a single, shot hitting Bradshaw in the midsection. The investigation into this incident continues.
    After reading this part of the update, not only were they justified in detaining him but also they acted in self-defense after initially disarming him and he continued the attack with another weapon.
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