LEOs shooting dogs

This is a discussion on LEOs shooting dogs within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I believe that more training on dogs and their "signs" and breed tendencies is not a bad idea for LEO. That being said, I worked ...

View Poll Results: LEO- have you had formal training on dealing with pets?

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Thread: LEOs shooting dogs

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    I believe that more training on dogs and their "signs" and breed tendencies is not a bad idea for LEO. That being said, I worked over 15 years in a large, unpredictable metro area and I have been "rushed" by dogs before both with and without LEO presence and not one time did any one shoot a dog. The one time our firefighters wanted to call LEO to shoot a dog, I was able to look in and see a Irish Red Sitter running around and "Happy" barking and wagging his tail so hard he darn near fell over. Knowing the breed and the way the dog presented, I opened the dog...commanded the dog into the bathroom. He complied and I shut the door and treated our patient.

    It is a sad occurrence when a pet is killed, especially when it is not necessary, but is it really a out of control issue?
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    BTW....the one time a rescuer got bit...it was by a old lady's tiny poodle. I picked it up after and shut that little mutt in a room too. The guy bit should have kicked it like a football.
    Secret Spuk likes this.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    I disagree; when it comes to officers shooting animals that is a safety call and need to be dealt with on a local level. How many people/dog attacks have we tabled on this site? To many to list so why is an officer any different. To ask a bunch of dog lover if it’s ok to do so only has one outcome... hate. I have three dogs and I am very loyal to them but they are like any animal-unpredictable to the unknown person
    Your correct that this is a hot button issue. I do however believe that even dog lovers can think rationally and not emotionally about it if they want to. The problem is not with shooting animals when it is necessary. The problems come when they are shot because it is the easy way to handle them. Anytime an officer discharges a weapon there needs to be a legitimate threat. A barking dog that is annoying me while I am walking to your door is not a legitimate cause in my mind.

    Note: I am an animal lover but have killed other folks pets who were harassing livestock or killing poultry. Never shot them for barking or otherwise annoying me though.

    Michael

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    To choose to shoot a domesticated pet that is not posing an immediate threat to ones safety, is pretty lame in my book.
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  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    The only reason why police shoot at dogs is because LEO hates dogs. Sorry I had too

    But really, if a dog comes running up to me barking and acting like its going to bite me, I will shoot it. Sorry if some may not like the fact that I would like to go home in one piece.
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  7. #21
    Ex Member Array FireStar M40's Avatar
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    Sounds Like Another One..!!

    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Having been there and done that, let me state that this will NOT become an LEO hates dogs thread.

    I have a mind to close it now as a preemptive strike, but I will let it stand as long as it stays civil.

    Warning to all that post...think before you post. If in doubt as to if it would fly or not, dont do it.
    I'm glad to see that the 1st is just as revered as the 2nd.

    FireStar M40
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  8. #22
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireStar M40 View Post
    I'm glad to see that the 1st is just as revered as the 2nd.

    FireStar M40
    Read the rules smart guy. The 1st pertains to government restricting your rights to free speach

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireStar M40 View Post
    I'm glad to see that the 1st is just as revered as the 2nd.

    FireStar M40
    That is a right from the government. This is a private forum...not a government forum. If the people in charge here wish to ban any conversation about Cheese Whiz...it is their right. Some people need to find out the meaning and application of their Rights and Freedoms.
    64zebra and bigdogtx like this.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    To ask a bunch of dog lover if it’s ok to do so only has one outcome... hate.
    Read my post again. I never asked that question.

    Plus, read the article. Some of the dogs shot were tiny like Chihuahas or old and decrepid and shouldn't have posed any serious threat to a fit and reasonable LEO.

    The point is not only that some LEO get trigger happy with "threatening" animals. It's that in an interaction with LEO at your home your personal pets could be shot down. That adds a legitimate concern in LEO interactions and shouldn't be brushed under the table.
    Spirit51 likes this.
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  11. #25
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knightrider View Post
    The only reason why police shoot at dogs is because LEO hates dogs. Sorry I had too

    But really, if a dog comes running up to me barking and acting like its going to bite me, I will shoot it. Sorry if some may not like the fact that I would like to go home in one piece.
    I could have killed a whole lots of dogs in my life if I felt that was all it took to justify it.

    Michael

  12. #26
    Member Array Crescentstar's Avatar
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    I never had any formal training on how to handle aggressive dogs. I wish I had. I never shot one, but I was mauled and seriously injured on duty by a dog. I didn't kill it though.

    That being said, I agree shooting Fido who happens to be a pet wiener dog is deplorable. In my area, however, we have had serious problems with dog attacks on both LE officers and citizens. It is in the news practically every other week.

    The "pets" in question are almost always pit bulls kept by "unsavory" individuals. Would I shoot a charging doper's dog before he chewed my let off? You bet. I lost use of a finger to my dog attack, and still have bite scars too.

    Funny....... a lot of people on these forums wouldn't hesitate to shoot a criminal, but shooting a criminal's DOG makes LE officers bad guys? If you haven't been a cop or been attacked by a dog, maybe you aren't as qualified as you think you are to judge.

    Remember, LEO's don't have the luxury of not responding to vicious dog calls. It goes with the job. If they DIDN'T do something, they would be criticized for not doing their jobs. Typical no-win situation.
    "Clearly that's a YOU problem not a ME problem."

  13. #27
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    I believe another contributing factor is the militarization of our nation's police forces which has led to ultra aggressive tactics even when dealing with what one may call average people.
    I'm of two minds on this one. I don't like the idea of hurting a dog but it is just an animal. As such if I were an officer and I felt I needed to shoot a dog I would shoot it and sleep soundly that night.

    On the other hand I belive that the above (in quotations) is also a big problem. Militarized police forces bring a good bit of the dog problem on theirselves and then clame officer protection when they shoot a family pet. If the'd just knock like the Framers intended then a pet could be locked up and everyone would be safe.
    rammerjammer likes this.
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  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    I'd agree with the wussie aspect of some of these types of situations, as they do have many options available to them before the lethal force can be justified IMO. It might boil down to a LEO who has never really been familiarized with the canine species, or tramatized by an earlier bad experience.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    During my career I've had to dispatch three dogs. One was an act of kindness as the pup had been hit by a car and was suffering. The second was during a foot chase of a robbery suspect we ran through a yard where the local dealer was dispensing drugs, and his pit mixed attacked me. The third was another pit that had gotten out of control, and was attacking passers by.

    Yes in my department an officer must report all shots fired by them while on or off duty. A seargent must investigate, and prepare a report. Notifications ate made to the duty captain, integrety controll supervisor, and officers C/O.. So it is a big deal.

    When preparing for a warrant service and intelligence indicate the presence of one or more dogs, they armed an officer with tranquilizer darts.

    I recieved training for dealing with dogs in the police academy, and in service training.

    Like another poster the only dog that ever bit me was a miniature poodle.

    The only abuse of department policy I witnessed was when a training officer had three newly minted officer's in crisp uniforms, and brand new eqiopment. Their first night on patrol. The senior officer was demonstrating something called vertical patrol. When they reached the roof of an apartment bulding they found a terrier of some kind that began barking at them. One of the probies promptly draws and fires killing the dog. Needless to say that probie didnt make it. But his excuse was" They said we could shoot vicious dogs... they didnt say anything about size".

    Spuk!

  16. #30
    Member Array lordofwyr's Avatar
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    Been a cop 30 years and so far, thankfully I have not had to shoot a dog yet, though I have come close many times, and believe me, it is not a fun thing to be charged by a 70lb Pit Mix. You WILL have the shooting investigated as a use of deadly force incident, you WILL be excoriated by the press in most instances, and you WILL have the local PETA people sending you death threats. So, I really don't want to have to shoot one, but still I will if I think it is immediately necessary and I do not have any other options right that moment and the incident cannot wait. (Animal Control in Austin is good, but they can be a loooooog time showing up when needed because, as always, they are understaffed and over worked)

    I have also seen the damage that can occur on a human body from being bitten by those sized dogs. A civilian friend retrieving a frisby got chomped by a German Shepherd on the inner right arm near the elbow and with one bite it tore through the main artery. He could have bled out had he not been near a hospital. People just don't understand that if a large or even medium sized dog gets a good bite, they will generally NOT let go short of being shot and killed, and permanent muscle and nerve damage WILL be done on whatever part they get a hold on.

    So which one of you is willing to possibly permanently lose use of your hand, arm, leg or groin if they latch on?

    I myself have four furry kids (Two ridiculous weenerdogs, a farm raised mutt that is probably part Basset, part German Shepherd, and then there is Norbert the Mutant MinPin), and with the exception of Norbert the Wondermutt, they are all cute furry companions that give love unconditionally to their family..... I cannot include Norbert in the cute division. Poor thing is ugly as a baboon's backside and you never know quite which eye to look into when he looks up at ya with that tongue lolling about..... and goddess help him, he looks a bit like a miniature black bear instead of a MinPin.....so I am a confirmed dog lover - cats not so much.....

    As to little dogs, there really could never be an excuse for shooting a chihuahua, a dachshund or any such like that in my opinion. Though they WILL bite and can be vicious, unless you are set upon by a pack of twenty or more, they are easily handled with alternate means, including a swift kick if necessary, though you have to be careful with that too. A friend in the Harris County Sheriff's Department many moons ago had a chihuahua latch onto his right pants leg. He tried to kick it free. It flew about fifteen feet....over a six foot wood security fence. He said it did several back flips on the way over...ooops....
    Spirit51 and ArkhmAsylm like this.
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