LEOs shooting dogs - Page 3

LEOs shooting dogs

This is a discussion on LEOs shooting dogs within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Closest I ever came to injuring an animal was on an FD medical response to backup EMS at a cardiac arrest. EMS arrived first and ...

View Poll Results: LEO- have you had formal training on dealing with pets?

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  • Yes

    4 26.67%
  • No

    11 73.33%
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Thread: LEOs shooting dogs

  1. #31
    Member Array Retiredonce's Avatar
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    Closest I ever came to injuring an animal was on an FD medical response to backup EMS at a cardiac arrest. EMS arrived first and was doing their thing in the living room. They had called for additional O2, so I grabbed the extra cylinder and their monitor off the truck on my way to the house. I knocked, opened the front door and yelled "fire department", more to locate the crew than anything else since it was a sizable house. As I came down the hallway, the family's 85lb German Shepherd launched at me and in a purely defensive instinct I swung the O2 cylinder upwards and caught the dog under the chin in mid-air, knocking him cold. Luckily, I had a sheriff's deputy right behind me who saw the entire thing and kept the family from using the O2 cylinder on me. The dog woke up about a minute later and wobbled away, and the SO said I was completely within my rights. I felt bad about doing it, but it was purely instinctual and defensive. BTW, grandma made it...
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  2. #32
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    I work for a large PD, and have had no specific training in how to deal with protective pets, other the basic rules on use of deadly force being as applicable to pets as people. I really love dogs, and have found other means of dealing with several threatening dogs, besides shooting them. Each time, however, that dog took ALL of my attention, which meant I was busy with the dog(s) instead of dealing with other potential threats. This meant I was exposing myself and colleagues to a greater risk of harm from other potential threats. My choice, and thus far, nobody hurt because of my choice.

    To be clear, I am no Cesar, but have been told I have a talent for dealing with dogs. I will not expect all LEOs to be able to handle dogs as well.

    Of the dogs in our household, at least one would probably be shot if our home were to be (hypothetically, of course) raided. I can control him, but perhaps only by physically intervening. If I could not intervene, our non-bashful Great Dane/Bloodhound mix, would probably get himself shot. He looks like a Fila Brasiliero, a breed well-known for taking no prisoners.

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    That was our plan if confronted by a large mean dog. O2 tank, Large old Lifepak or Huge Plano "drug box" across the bridge of the mutt's nose, as many times as needed or PRN. We used it a couple of times with great success. A dog may be mean...but it understands great pain.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
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  4. #34
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    Now that I think about it, we were taught a modified Taser technique for dogs, to deal with the horizontal orientation of their torsos. As with people, however, the darts can miss, and even if the darts hit, once the juice is off, the fight is back on.

  5. #35
    Member Array AustinS's Avatar
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    Wow people are calling for this thread to be shut down earlier. We are big boys and girls we can have a conversation. If people get easily offended they probably dont need to be communicating on a Internet fourm of any kind, forums like these are created so people can express advice, experiences and opinions I think this site shuts topics down to soon ie Styg law that is big deal for the gun community.

  6. #36
    Member Array Footslogger's Avatar
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    A very sad article indeed, and I am sure there have been many situations where officers were over zealous or lacked patience while dealing with a dog. I have two thoughts I want to add:

    1) I would imagine that in a heated moment, like in a raid or when the officer is worried about being attacked from multiple angles (ie a dog from one side and a human on the other) then a quick decision must be made. I am in a profession (not LEO) where I am constantly judged by Monday morning quarter backs after the situation occurred when everyone has time to think it through. It is frustrating beyond my ability to communicate, being judged by people that were not there and/or are not even in the same profession.

    3) In my life, of the dog owners I have been exposed to I believe 75% of them to be completely irresponsible pet owners. That is only my own small sampling of data, but regardless it is my experience. I wonder, if we were to look through the list of perceived 'unjust' dog shootings, how many could have been prevented if the owner were more responsible (following leash laws, having a proper fence, training the dog, not participating in other illegal activities, etc). I know there would still be a list after removing the irresponsible pet owners, but I bet it would be a lot shorter.
    Dave

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  7. #37
    Member Array AustinS's Avatar
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    I am a dog lover that being said if I had to I would shoot it. I'm sure Leo's aren't out shooting dogs they have to do what they have to do if it's a threat. Sure there is probably cases of unnessecary shootings but you can't label all Leo's ad dog killers. But the op was simply asking if they are trained when it comes to dogs that's a fair question.

  8. #38
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    I believe that more training on dogs and their "signs" and breed tendencies is not a bad idea for LEO. That being said, I worked over 15 years in a large, unpredictable metro area and I have been "rushed" by dogs before both with and without LEO presence and not one time did any one shoot a dog. The one time our firefighters wanted to call LEO to shoot a dog, I was able to look in and see a Irish Red Sitter running around and "Happy" barking and wagging his tail so hard he darn near fell over. Knowing the breed and the way the dog presented, I opened the dog...commanded the dog into the bathroom. He complied and I shut the door and treated our patient.

    It is a sad occurrence when a pet is killed, especially when it is not necessary, but is it really a out of control issue?
    Out of control, in that, I don't feel very confident that if the police ever had to enter my property or home on an emergency basis, that my dogs wouldn't be dispatched due to an officer fearing a dog bite.

    Most people get dogs for companionship, with the side benefit of them being loyal protectors of their adoptive families. I can't see that I'd be very forgiving if anyone seriously injured or killed my companions because they were doing their job and the actor didn't have the wherewithal to handle the situation differently.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  9. #39
    Senior Member Array Geezer's Avatar
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    Over the years, I've had to kill several dogs that were after my livestock. They were probably all dumped, formed packs, and killed for survival. It's never easy, always heartbreaking, but humane in the long term (the previous owners are the ones that needed to be shot). It would be a LOT easier to shoot a burglar than it is to shoot a dog. I've got four large dogs in my yard that were all strays, yet I just couldn't harm them because they weren't harming anything. If, God forbid, a LEO ever shot one of our dogs (on private property) the only recourse would be through the court system.
    garyacman likes this.

  10. #40
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I could have killed a whole lots of dogs in my life if I felt that was all it took to justify it.

    Michael
    I just value my life.......
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  11. #41
    Ex Member Array FireStar M40's Avatar
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    Wink It's Quite Obvious..

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Read the rules smart guy. The 1st pertains to government restricting your rights to free speach
    ..You missed the whole gist of my post. Of course, for some people........!

    FireStar M40

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireStar M40 View Post
    ..You missed the whole gist of my post. Of course, for some people........!

    FireStar M40
    So "enlighten" us to what you meant. Don't just give some vague insult and leave.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

  13. #43
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Knightrider
    The only reason why police shoot at dogs is because LEO hates dogs. Sorry I had too

    But really, if a dog comes running up to me barking and acting like its going to bite me, I will shoot it. Sorry if some may not like the fact that I would like to go home in one piece.
    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I could have killed a whole lots of dogs in my life if I felt that was all it took to justify it.

    Michael
    Quote Originally Posted by Knightrider View Post
    I just value my life.......
    I value my life as well. Would the standards you believe justify a LEO killing a dog apply to an ordinary citizen? If a LEO is justified to shoot a dog that appears dangerous and is barking at him shouldn't I be justified to do the same? I value my life just as much as they value theirs.

    Don't get me wrong I have not problem with killing an animal that poses a threat. My point is that LEO's and private citizens should be held to the same standards. If a private citizen had killed that dog under those same conditions would they be charged with a crime?

    Michael
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  14. #44
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I value my life as well. Would the standards you believe justify a LEO killing a dog apply to an ordinary citizen? If a LEO is justified to shoot a dog that appears dangerous and is barking at him shouldn't I be justified to do the same? I value my life just as much as they value theirs.

    Don't get me wrong I have not problem with killing an animal that poses a threat. My point is that LEO's and private citizens should be held to the same standards. If a private citizen had killed that dog under those same conditions would they be charged with a crime?

    Michael

    Ummm I think they pretty much are held to the same standard. Only difference is that the police find themselves in that position more often.

  15. #45
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    Ummm I think they pretty much are held to the same standard. Only difference is that the police find themselves in that position more often.
    Personal experience leads me to believe otherwise. But, if as you say they are indeed held to the same standards I have no problem with it.

    Michael

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