bad - 4 Guardian Angels stabbed in subway

This is a discussion on bad - 4 Guardian Angels stabbed in subway within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by barstoolguru but they still have the right to self defense or to aid in the defense of another and I believe can ...

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Thread: bad - 4 Guardian Angels stabbed in subway

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    but they still have the right to self defense or to aid in the defense of another and I believe can make a citizen’s arrest (someone will correct me if I am wrong)
    you didn't read the story did you? they tried to make a "citizens arrest" however non of the wannabe coppers checked their 6 for confederates of the BG and there was one who was able to take them apart.
    so you have a few untrained mall ninjas playing super hero in a rough part of town, too bad they weren't trained too well and paid a serious price for being vigilantes.

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  3. #17
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    The fact is that if they did that, then they wouldn't be Guardian Angels. They'd be just ordinary schmucks with cell phones. These guys actually will try and intervene while you are being pistol whipped by some savage thug.

    Much respect to the Guardians, and I'm very sorry some of them got hurt in the line of fire.

    And... Maybe this is where some of us differ from many members of the DC board. There's one contingent who believes that if you hear screaming and pleas for help, then the best thing to do is lock your door and turn out your lights and maybe call it in. Others, like myself, will go and check it out and intervene if doing so is possible. That's a risk, sure. But life - well lived - is risk.
    some of us are wise and some of us aren't
    just saying

  4. #18
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    you didn't read the story did you? they tried to make a "citizens arrest" however non of the wannabe coppers checked their 6 for confederates of the BG and there was one who was able to take them apart.
    so you have a few untrained mall ninjas playing super hero in a rough part of town, too bad they weren't trained too well and paid a serious price for being vigilantes.
    No I didn't read the story did someone post one? What I did do was watch the video and the only mistake they made was not beating the tar out of the robber!

    As for me I will take the mall ninja's over someone that will just stand there and watch someone get pistol whipped and does nothing! there is a list a mile long of TRAINED people that are killed or injured so even the best get beat but they all have one thing in common.... they are willing to make a difference and that to me is better than watching and doing nothing
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  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    but they still have the right to self defense or to aid in the defense of another and I believe can make a citizenís arrest (someone will correct me if I am wrong)
    Yes, they do, and that is what our leaders are demonizing as vigilantism.

  6. #20
    HCF
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    I think the Angels serve a good purpose, because to many stand by an watch and don't want to be involved let alone be a witness. I think they need more training and aware of there surroundings, could of been alot worse. LEO can't be everywhere or there in time in some situations. They should of been on phone with 911 and carry video cameras.
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  7. #21
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    Yes, they do, and that is what our leaders are demonizing as vigilantism.
    the problem with leaders in Chicago and NYC is they think they know what is right for everyone with their god complexes. do you think Bloomsburg rides the subway at 2 in the morning coming home from a job... heck no, he probably has not been on a subway in 20 years so how can he say what is good for someone else. The real problem is that people in big cities are sheep and lost their sense of self reliance constantly being told what to do

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    some of us are wise and some of us aren't
    just saying
    I only wish that I could be there if you ever needed help... and do nothing.

  9. #23
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    I only wish that I could be there if you ever needed help... and do nothing.
    as evidenced by this and other posts by you, you appear to be a very sick in the mind person.
    have you considered seeking professional help?

  10. #24
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    as evidenced by this and other posts by you, you appear to be a very sick in the mind person.
    have you considered seeking professional help?
    Oh I'm sorry, I thought you were talking to yourself...

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array Caertaker's Avatar
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    After watching the video and reading the commentary I feel the issue is not whether the Guardian Angels have a failed business model or are “mall ninjas” or are short or a pita for LEOs or even that a fellow member needs help. For me the issue is how is it acceptable to the law abiding citizens of Chicago that they are deprived of the basic right to protect themselves? Evidence suggests that their brand of gun control doesn’t work very well and yet there is no public outcry. What's up with that?
    Last edited by Caertaker; May 17th, 2012 at 07:28 AM. Reason: apparently unacceptable 3 letter abrieviation for "what the ____"

  12. #26
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caertaker View Post
    After watching the video and reading the commentary I feel the issue is not whether the Guardian Angels have a failed business model or are “mall ninjas” or are short or a pita for LEOs or even that a fellow member needs help. For me the issue is how is it acceptable to the law abiding citizens of Chicago that they are deprived of the basic right to protect themselves? Evidence suggests that their brand of gun control doesn’t work very well and yet there is no public outcry. What's up with that?
    what's up with that is that the residents there are conditioned to loathe guns by an ultra leftist government and compliant and corrupt media. I have family that live there and it is amazing to listen to their opinions on various topics. On guns they once asked me if I kept guns in the house to which I responded yes, they asked are they loaded with bullets, I responded with the gun isn't very useful without bullets, then they asked isn't that dangerous? I responded with it could be dangerous if I wasn't mindful of the rules of safety, I had to explain to them that a gun is an inanimate object and that it was impossible for it to fire a round without a human initiating that firing of the round. They still mumbled their views about how foolish and dangerous it was to have a loaded gun in a home.
    You are fighting against years of teachers telling children how bad guns are, politicians telling people how bad guns are and the media reinforcing the propaganda from the government and the sheeple believe whatever they are told.
    In another thread I advocated that gun owners like us make a commitment to reach out to at least 1 newbie/anti and bring them shooting to try and help them get over all the garbage they've been brainwashed with over the years. I truly believe that such an outreach project could help teach the ignorant the truth about guns and gun ownership.

    if we as gun owners do not try to counter all the propaganda that is put out against us we will be on the losing side of this issue.

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Having been a resident of Chicago, I can attest that some of what apvbguy says is correct. When I left Chicago, there was still a trap and skeet range on the lake, in the city limits. I lived within a mile or two of it.

    So, the change in attitude towards guns has occurred within one generation.

    For a while, before I left the "Chicagoland" area (and moved to Iowa), I lived in the south suburbs. I bought my first rifle at one of the largest gun shops in Illinois at the time (I think it was in Blue Island, but could be mistaken).

    There are still plenty of gun enthusiasts in Illinois, and even in Chicago... But those within the city limits of Chicago are few, and have enough disposable income that the fees to have weapons in town don't bother them...

    Unfortunately, as the population center of the state, Chicago (and it's political machine) controls the remainder of the state. Wisconsin, (yes, the whole state) the largest "suburb" of Chicago, suffered from the anti gun sentiment that ex-patriot Chicagoans brought with them, until just recently.

    And finally, there is some movement towards saner gun laws in Illinois (even including concealed carry, oh my!). It has been a long slog... but pro gun folks are persistent, and it may yet come to pass...

    But, anti gunners are anti gunners, wherever they are found. There are more of them in urban areas because there are more people in urban areas. Most of them are reasonably well off (you have to be to afford to live in a northern city/metropolis), and their emotional attachment to notions of utopia are based on two things:
    1. How they wish things were.
    And
    2. How they are "apart" from all those nasty realities of life. ("Oh what a shame about those Guardian Angels... on the "el" in that neighborhood.") They choose to remain blind when it happens in their neighborhood.
    Doghandler likes this.
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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  14. #28
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    I guess it's only OK to be a "vigilante" if you're paid and armed by the government to go out and look for trouble. It's called the POLICE. But the police aren't vigilantes because they are sanctioned by the government.

    Mere citizens may not stop crime (other than in self defense) while in possession of a firearm for fear of prosecution or media crucifixion as a vigilante.

    Let's remember that the police exist because society deemed such a job necessary to augment, and eventually replace, the citizens' duty and grant more authority to the traditional "night watchmen."

    Does a citizen today have a right or responsibility to stop crime? Is there a place in law abiding society today for an armed man to patrol his neighborhood "looking for trouble" without being labeled a vigilante? A vigilante is defined as one who "takes the law into their own hands" but also as one who "administers his own form of justice." Hmmm, perhaps "vigilante" shouldn't be such a bad word, since most acts of modern vigilantism do not entail the administration of personal justice, which I assume would be considered summary execution, excessive force, or torture. A citizen, perhaps on patrol, who stops a crime and hands the criminal over to the police is not a vigilante, is he? He is actually a good citizen in the traditional sense of the word.

    I am going to make this a new thread for further discussion, here:

    What is a vigilante? Is that a good or a bad thing?
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    some of us are wise and some of us aren't
    just saying
    I may have this all wrong (seriously) but it sounds like you are saying that these four men should take diligent notes of what was happening (somebody getting their head caved in) so they will be well-versed on giving a description to the police. Or, a girl is being raped on the last car of the train and, as a good citizen, I'm taking accurate notes (maybe even a cell video?) once again to give this to the police. I'm wondering how you would feel if that was your daughter being raped as four men took copious notes and pictures? And so we make fun of them because they are "mall ninjas"?
    "The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." Eccl. 10:2

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by aznav View Post
    I may have this all wrong (seriously) but it sounds like you are saying that these four men should take diligent notes of what was happening (somebody getting their head caved in) so they will be well-versed on giving a description to the police. Or, a girl is being raped on the last car of the train and, as a good citizen, I'm taking accurate notes (maybe even a cell video?) once again to give this to the police. I'm wondering how you would feel if that was your daughter being raped as four men took copious notes and pictures? And so we make fun of them because they are "mall ninjas"?
    You're not wrong...

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