Road rage leads to shooting - Page 4

Road rage leads to shooting

This is a discussion on Road rage leads to shooting within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; As a longtime motorcyclist I've obviously had to deal with my share of a-hole drivers but my first response is always to avoid wiping out ...

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Thread: Road rage leads to shooting

  1. #46
    Ex Member Array oldrwizr's Avatar
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    As a longtime motorcyclist I've obviously had to deal with my share of a-hole drivers but my first response is always to avoid wiping out or getting wiped out. My second response is flipping off the other driver accompanied by some gender-specific "suggestions". It no doubt instills a little fear in the driver to have a big guy wearing an outlaw beanie giving them the what-for from his Harley. I get to blow off a little steam, stay out of court, and they hopefully get the message.


  2. #47
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldrwizr View Post
    As a longtime motorcyclist ... My second response is flipping off the other driver accompanied by some gender-specific "suggestions".

    It no doubt instills a little fear ... I get to blow off a little steam, stay out of court ...
    Perhaps. Assault is assault, no matter the rationalization. BTW, BTDT myself, as a motorcycle rider. It's no fun. BTDT, as well, as a car driver. It's not fun there, either. In the dozens of times I have previously felt "cut off," it has been due to the other driver not having seen me (no doubt, due to not having taken pains to attempt to see if someone was there prior to making the move). Still, none of it's justification to commit assault or worse. Bummed or not.

    And the part about staying out of jail could get dicey, particularly if the situation escalates into something else, and then it later becomes known one was carrying a deadly weapon while engaging in such actions. Can't control what can't be controlled, though controlling the other stuff isn't that hard.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  3. #48
    Member Array RichB70's Avatar
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    I always figure an inch is as good as a mile when I get cut off. No big deal chaulk it up to stupidty or carelessness. "An old man won't fight you but he WILL shoot you" !!!

    Rich

  4. #49
    Ex Member Array oldrwizr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Perhaps. Assault is assault, no matter the rationalization. BTW, BTDT myself, as a motorcycle rider. It's no fun. BTDT, as well, as a car driver. It's not fun there, either. In the dozens of times I have previously felt "cut off," it has been due to the other driver not having seen me (no doubt, due to not having taken pains to attempt to see if someone was there prior to making the move). Still, none of it's justification to commit assault or worse. Bummed or not.

    And the part about staying out of jail could get dicey, particularly if the situation escalates into something else, and then it later becomes known one was carrying a deadly weapon while engaging in such actions. Can't control what can't be controlled, though controlling the other stuff isn't that hard.
    You seem to be assuming there's some kind of physical confrontation. I flip, yell, and continue my business. These offenders are usually young women, since young women don't seem to realize that some of us guys ride motorcycles on the street where they drive. I don't think one will look for a LEO to go, "That mean biker flipped me off and called me the C-word and all I did was almost kill him!"

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldrwizr View Post
    You seem to be assuming there's some kind of physical confrontation. I flip ...
    Nope. I'm simply pointing out that flipping the bird and heatedly engaging another in (essentially) retribution for an act can easily be taken that way. Call it "notifying the other of the previous transgression or error in visibility," but not everyone might take it that way ... either the other party, who might well take offense and escalate it beyond the escalation, or the investigating parties once the 'party' is over.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  6. #51
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldcurmudgeo View Post
    Note that I did not say that one should ride east coast to west in the left lane.

    But there are a lot of towns where the interchanges do not have speed up lanes, or the speed up lanes are too short and the same person who just found out his wife is leaving him or his kid just got killed in an accident, rolls out of an interchange right into you.

    So there are certain places where the right line is a very hazardoust place.
    I used to drive a truck & owned a transportation company back in the early-mid 90's. I tried hard to convince the highway safety commission that forcing trucks to stay in the right lane while traveling around cities was a very dangerous thing.

    My thoughts are that 90+% of all big trucks are passing through or around major cities. So, doing away with lane restriction laws and allowing them to remain in the through lanes instead of forcing them in a position where commuters come flying up & cutting them off at the last minute (to make the exit) would be much safer. (for "ALL" the drivers on the road)

    I think the same can be said of bikers. I've taught people 'defensive" driving techniques before. One thing that is always emphasized is every lane change, every time you have to hit the brakes and every "turn" you make ups the ante considerably for being involved in an accident.

    SA! (It's for more than just CC.)
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  7. #52
    Member Array l1a1's Avatar
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    As a motorcyclist the best advice I ever recieved was this.

    On a motorcycle you are absolutely invisible. No one else can see you.

    In the rare occurance that you become visible to a driver, they are actively trying to kill you.

    If you ride as if these things are true, you will avoid a lot of aggravation and be safer for it.

    My wife can't seem to understand that right of way means absolutely nothing as far as safely operating a motorcycle. Just because you are in the right to proceed does not make it a prudent option if the other drivers did not get the memo.
    msgt/ret and mprp like this.
    It's kind of like how some people have a sudden and insatiable desire to talk about vampires after the Twilight series became popular, except zombies are much less gay and more likely to exist one day

  8. #53
    Member Array Ransom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    No telling for certain how this particular situation really occurred, but situations like this occur all the time. In such instances, it's often highly likely the car driver doesn't even see the motorcycle when making its move. As most know from experience, a blind spot can be an ugly place to be.

    If it did occur as claimed and reported, then the assaulted has every right to defend against imminent violence. Nothing justifies unprovoked violent attack on another, no matter the rationalizing according to the 'dissed' branch of mathematics.
    In this case the motorcyclists were in the wrong. And like oldrwizr, the grandfather blew off some steam at them, not being intimidated by their tough Harley rider looks. The news article says:

    The motorcyclist thought the grandfather cut his wife off and the grandfather thought he was cut off while turning onto Bryan Road at the Interstate 70 west exit.

    The turning lanes are confusing at that exit, and it would be easy to be mistaken about who cut whom off, said Banas, but it does appear the motorcyclists, who were not familiar with the exit, were in the wrong lane. The grandfather yelled at the motorcyclists, and they began arguing.

    Read more: No charges in O'Fallon, Mo., road rage shooting
    Maybe next time the motorcyclist will wise up and stay on his bike. You never know who you're messing with.

  9. #54
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I can't support the driver at all in this one. A punch, does not equate to imminent death or serious bodily injury. I'ld arrest the driver and charge him. Now, if it was a full on attack, may be a different situation and lean more to the justified side.

    If you about take me out on my bike, you will hear from me about it. I won't come up to your window though. Get over it, and drive better.
    88% of all accidents involving a motorcycle in my state, are found to be the fault of the driver of the other vehicle.
    8%, are sole accidents, not involving another vehicle at all ... "lost control" , etc.
    And 4 % .... are the motorcyclist's fault.

    So, I think even the stats won't support most drivers who think because they are in a car, it makes whatever they do OK.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  10. #55
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    A punch, does not equate to imminent death or serious bodily injury. Now, if it was a full on attack, may be a different situation and lean more to the justified side.
    Yup. But then, it can be hard to know the exact level of threat, here on our armchairs. It's why most states have language about the "reasonableness" of one's actions, when involving the use of lethal force. Can't be using it at every twitch or fear. After all: it's a life.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  11. #56
    Distinguished Member Array Black Knight's Avatar
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    I am not a motorcycle rider but have wanted to learn. That being said I may have in the past accidentally cut one off and apoligize for doing so as I understand the sentiment. But does blowing off steam just to educate (scare) someone into better driving justify running the risk that the auto driver may be armed and not in the mood to hear your grief. I don't know, each situation is different. To those who do ride, play it safe may be easier said than done but we do want to be able to hear from you after your ride. Stay safe.

  12. #57
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    I was cut off riding on the interstate by an older gentleman, with what appeared to be his grandson. I was in the far left lane and he forced me to the left of the far left lane. So hanging on to what pavement I had left, I looked over at him and just waved. He saw me by that time and just the look on his face told me that it wasn't on purpose.

    It was my CCW instructor who put it best. " The definition of road rage is two idiots that found eachother."
    l1a1 likes this.
    Vietnam Vets, WELCOME HOME

    Crossman 760 BB/Pellet, Daisy Red Ryder, Crossman Wrist Rocket, 14 Steak Knives, 3 Fillet Knives, Rolling Pin-14", Various Hunting Knives, 2 Baseball Bats, 3 Big Dogs and a big American Flag flying in the yard. I have no firearms; Try the next house.

  13. #58
    Member Array l1a1's Avatar
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    Bottom line is this. Whatever you want to say about intent or what have you, It is MUCH easier to not see a motorcyclist than it is to fail to see a sedan, truck, ambulance, train or whatever. There are collisions everyday in which the above objects were not noticed or noticed too late to avoid a crash. It is not supposed to be this way but it is a motorcyclists responsiblity and ultimately his or her best interest to avoid being in a position or at least staying in a position that would make your presence easy to miss or a collision impossible to avoid.

    I wish people would be much more attentive drivers but it just ain't gonna happen because I want it too.

    If you will excuse me, I have to get back to the motorcycle forum to talk smack about what I would have done had I been cut off by a motorist. :)
    It's kind of like how some people have a sudden and insatiable desire to talk about vampires after the Twilight series became popular, except zombies are much less gay and more likely to exist one day

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