This is a discussion on Bad: Shopper at Costco shot by police.... within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by aznav Very old. Originally Posted by apvbguy very old news thats been beaten to death already Well my apologies boys,,,,,guess it is ...
"They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" ~ Paul Harvey
A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
Susan B. Anthony
A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
Seems to me that there is enough 'blame' to go around. I don't know all the facts, but I do know that when I'm carrying (all the time) I'm much more polite, etc. IF the article is correct, why did Erik argue with an employee? Why didn't he just leave immediately? I know the loss-prevention guy could still make his mistake.
SOLD my guns.
Proud owner of a 12lb. Chinese pug that is DANGEROUS and is soon to be registered!
There are lots of examples of write-ups, proselytizing and discussions out there on the web, from news articles and summaries of court testimonies to forum/blog posts. Lots of claims, from all sides, including: erratic behavior vs misinterpretation of behavior; demand to leave vs refusal to leave; shoplifting vs "trying out" the size prior to purchase; destroyed security tapes vs inability to recover tape contents; claimed 3sec time from command to shooting vs inability to distinctly infer the time simply from 911 tapes; let alone the accusations of lying, cover-up and refusal to cooperate on the part of various members of the agencies involved.
Whatever else can be said, it's a decent lesson on what to do and avoid whenever dealing with people out in the real world.
Reality is what it is, and it can be both subtle and harsh:
- Perceptions can be incorrect or exaggerated.
- Perceptions can be distorted in stressful situations.
- Witnesses can witness little or much, depending on much (position/distance in relation to the events, timing, whether paying attention to entire event stream, whether paying good attention, etc).
- Ego, pride and other elements can become factors.
- Seeing/Listening can be impacted by "tunnel vision" and the heat of the moment.
- People often act in their own best interests in such situations, to skew impressions a given direction.
- People can speak untruths (as with witnesses who didn't actually see/sense what they thought), outright lie (as with seeking to alter the facts/evidence), or even seek to fill in the blanks where they do not know.
- The presence of "deadly" weapons in the mix can elevate tensions to the point of affecting these stressors.
- There are no do-overs in this life.
When a "situation" is brewing, it's incumbent on all players to realize these elements and how impactful they can become when nobody's paying attention to the risks.
There are a few simple lessons that seem clear, at least to me:
- Be nice.
- All things in moderation.
- If asked to leave a place of business, understand that my presence is no longer wanted (and what that might mean legally and in terms of potential escalation if I disregard it).
- If carrying concealed, carry concealed.
- If engaging with others, be considerate that other perspectives, understanding and levels of tolerance exist.
- If situation escalates or becomes risky, act calmly and nicely to avoid introducing tensions/threats that needn't exist.
- If police get involved, work with and not against them toward resolution.
- If police command/threaten because of the situation: "no false moves"; freeze means freeze.
- Being armed increases my responsibility to be aware of these elements.
- Life isn't a game to be played, particularly not when out and about with others while armed.
He was murdered, and his murderers were aquitted by a corrupt system, of the good 'ole boy network opperating in Nevada.
Blame him if you want to, but he was MURDERED.
I would rather die with good men than hide with cowards
If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy."
M&Pc .357sig, 2340Sigpro .357sig
IIRC they was supposed to be a civil action brought by his family that was supposed to blow the lid of something. Anybody know what happened with that?
Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis
Costco shooting victim's family drops lawsuit against Las Vegas police - News - ReviewJournal.com
The family decided to drop the suit as they felt that it would be tough, given the resulting investigations justifying the actions of the LVPD, to get a decision that favored them.
"Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)
"There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)
Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition
I don't respect you enough to argue.
hears a though; sir you need to leave costco has a policy about guns .... fine I am leaving...... not "I'm not going".
Last edited by rstickle; June 3rd, 2012 at 12:06 PM. Reason: Language
He was showing his pistol in the store, not just printing! Last I checked it is to be concealed Carry! When the store JERK ask him to leave, he refused. Thats were the MWAG calls starts the ball rolling!
Now he is out side the store and three officers approach, two from the rear and one from the front. It is alledged that there were multiple directions given by the officers! The two from the rear saw him lower his hand and reach for his pistol. The vast number of shots came from the officers in the rear. How were they to know if he is drawing a weapon or trying to unarm himself? As for the drugs, he had prescriptions and they were in his system, did this cloud his judgement? Who Knows!
THE FIRST THING I LEARNED WHEN CONFRONTED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT IS HANDS IN THE AIR AND DON'T MOVE!! If they want to disarm you let them do a felony take down and let them take your weapon! That way they are safe and you don't get shot making a furtive movement!
Costco policy for carring in their stores is based on this event as I still think there is a law suit against Costco by the family.
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm and three or more is a congress. -- John Adams
If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free! -- P.J. O'Rourke
The moronic loss prevention officer should be charged with murder. His stupidity and paranoia escalated the situation.
Best part... "The store’s video surveillance system inexplicably malfunctioned for the several seconds of the shooting."
"Death is lighter than a feather, but Duty is heavier than a mountain" Robert Jordan
Glock 19 Gen 4
Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes