Breaking News (AP): Texas Jury Convicts Raul Rodriguez of Murder - Page 3

Breaking News (AP): Texas Jury Convicts Raul Rodriguez of Murder

This is a discussion on Breaking News (AP): Texas Jury Convicts Raul Rodriguez of Murder within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by JoJoGunn Was there really any doubt about the verdict? I think not. If I was on that jury, I would have come ...

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Thread: Breaking News (AP): Texas Jury Convicts Raul Rodriguez of Murder

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoGunn View Post
    Was there really any doubt about the verdict? I think not. If I was on that jury, I would have come to the same conclusion the whack job was guilty as well.

    The problem with "Stand Your Ground/Castle Doctrine" laws would be that people do not understand the content and context of them. They believe it is acceptable to go out, really confront someone, use deadly force and then scream "self defense" when the opposition retaliates. There is a fine line in this, and it must be applied to the real SYG situations, not used as a defense when someone has initiated the action as in this case.

    There will be another famous case in Florida where the SYG laws will be put on trial. It could have an impact on how those laws are interpreted and may result in changes in them to restrict what can and cannot be done in a defensive situation. Or it may result in doing away with them entirely, because the anti gun people see them as a "licence to kill" and they will use these cases to further their agenda of banning firearms.
    I don't see this Texas case as being even remotely one of SYG; and neither did the jury. I would hope it
    has no impact whatsoever on SYG laws. The FL case is completely different in nature.

    IMO this guy should have been charged with murder 1. He planned the whole scenario out, provoked
    the whole deal, and knew ahead of time how it would end and tried to create the appearance of an
    excuse with his recordings and specific language use--- when all he had to do was go on out into
    the stree and shut his mouth, walk home and call the cops. You can't claim SYG when you are on
    someone else's ground.

    I don't know if he was low IQ, mental, smart but did something stupid anyway, but I do know the overall
    case was not an SYG situation. SO, I hope the news people and the legislators all recognize what it was,
    and what it wasn't, as the jury did, and then that they do no harm to SYG laws which I think are
    absolutely essential for the legal protection of everyone who is ever in a fight, gun or knife, or pepper,
    or H2H.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson


  2. #32
    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
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    I agree that the correct verdict was served.
    Another important point - If the deceased would have turned down the music, he would still be enjoying his wife & daughter.
    We live in a society with some folks that are not as stable as others. We can't eliminate them, so we need to learn to get along with them. If that means turning down the music to make our lives more peaceful - You be the judge on this one.
    Sad that there is another fatherless family.
    Hopyard and WHEC724 like this.
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  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayzor View Post
    I agree that the correct verdict was served.
    Another important point - If the deceased would have turned down the music, he would still be enjoying his wife & daughter.
    We live in a society with some folks that are not as stable as others. We can't eliminate them, so we need to learn to get along with them. If that means turning down the music to make our lives more peaceful - You be the judge on this one.
    Sad that there is another fatherless family.
    We live in a society that increasingly promotes violent solutions to the smallest offenses. Open hostility abounds and civility is dead. Civility and manners are perceived as weakness. You no longer cut the other fellow some slack or give him the benefit of the doubt. Now, you get right in his face, baby. People wear obscene T-shirts and think nothing of it. Reading "UP YOURS!!" printed in three inch letters across some guy's back while standing behind him in a grocery checkout is almost commonplace anymore. It's like everybody is trying to outdo "Tommy", the character played by Joe Pesci in "Goodfellas". Little "Tommy Toughguys" just waiting for you to look at them the wrong way or something.
    ericb327 and Sig 210 like this.
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  4. #34
    EdC
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErnieNWillis View Post
    He should be put away for life. Castle doctrine went out the window the moment this dumb @ZZ stepped onto his neighbors property.
    Just to clarify, everything I have read said that it took place in the street/sidewalk, and not on the victim's property. The shooter provoked and lured the victims into the street, then brandished his handgun (against Texas law), further provoking the victims.

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    Mr. Gene83

    Before you get too offended at the UP YOURS shirt you may want to read the front that may say, "MAKE 7." Could be wearing an advertisement for 7-UP. Seriously.

    To get to your point though, I know what you mean. It also used to be an argument or maybe even a fist fight that resulted in the winner of the conversation. Now, an unbelievable number of people figure that aimlessly spraying lead toward innocent people is the answer. Now while I agree that there was conflict here and he was essentially alone against the masses, he was about as threatened as one would be trying to return an item to a store without a receipt. To get positive results, one may have to be a bit more tactful.
    Hopyard likes this.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdC View Post
    Just to clarify, everything I have read said that it took place in the street/sidewalk, and not on the victim's property. The shooter provoked and lured the victims into the street, then brandished his handgun (against Texas law), further provoking the victims.
    The story in post 1 does say in the street, but I recall seeing the video and they appeared to be
    in the driveway. Either way, the total picture is one of a premeditated event, and not SYG.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mprp View Post
    Mr. Gene83

    Before you get too offended at the UP YOURS shirt you may want to read the front that may say, "MAKE 7." Could be wearing an advertisement for 7-UP. Seriously.

    To get to your point though, I know what you mean. It also used to be an argument or maybe even a fist fight that resulted in the winner of the conversation. Now, an unbelievable number of people figure that aimlessly spraying lead toward innocent people is the answer. Now while I agree that there was conflict here and he was essentially alone against the masses, he was about as threatened as one would be trying to return an item to a store without a receipt. To get positive results, one may have to be a bit more tactful.

    It could be, but it didn't. Also, I fail to see the advertising message in the shirts that read "F--- Y--!!" I've seen several of those around also. Maybe it's a generational gap thing. Profanity on T-shirts and bumper stickers just isn't my style.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  8. #38
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    Yep, definitely going downhill.
    Vietnam Vets, WELCOME HOME

    Crossman 760 BB/Pellet, Daisy Red Ryder, Crossman Wrist Rocket, 14 Steak Knives, 3 Fillet Knives, Rolling Pin-14", Various Hunting Knives, 2 Baseball Bats, 3 Big Dogs and a big American Flag flying in the yard. I have no firearms; Try the next house.

  9. #39
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    Well! Color me flabbergasted!

    I thought for sure, that I could video tape me instigating some altercation, while using those tried and true CCW mantras such as "I'm in fear of my life, but I'm standing my ground." And never go to jail.

    Imagine that!

    I 'spose that makes my CCW badge and sash pretty worthless too, huh?

    Guy deserves what he gets.

    And for those of you with difficulty comprehending sarcasm, part of the above may have included some. You figger it out.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    The story in post 1 does say in the street, but I recall seeing the video and they appeared to be
    in the driveway. Either way, the total picture is one of a premeditated event, and not SYG.
    If I read it correctly, Rodriguez was in the street antagonizing the three men and brandishing while they were on their own property. It seems Rodriguez was trying to get them to come out into the street and fight so he could then shoot them. Additionally, I believe TX has a component of their SYG law that states that one cannot claim SYG in the commission of a crime, which Rodriguez's brandishing obviously was.

    But yeah, this situation was manufactured from start to finish by Rodriguez. He knew he was going to shoot one or more of those guys before he even stepped foot outside of his house. He had his camera, he *thought* he was saying all the right things to eventually get himself off the hook("I'm in fear for my life, these guys are going to kill me", "I'm standing my ground here"), etc. Ironically, the video tape probably did him more harm than good. The guys he shot were obviously not much of a threat and it's rather hard to claim self defense with the confrontation dragging on 22 minutes before he finally shot. He had plenty of opportunity to disengage if he truely felt his life was in danger.

    Finally, the kicker. One of his neighbors actually testified that Rodriguez had told her once that "if someone is annoying you, you can shoot that person, claim SYG, and you'll get off for it".
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  11. #41
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    Texas does not have a brandishing law. It falls under disorderly conduct.

    Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:
    (1) uses abusive, indecent, profane, or vulgar language in a public place, and the language by its very utterance tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace;
    (2) makes an offensive gesture or display in a public place, and the gesture or display tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace;
    (3) creates, by chemical means, a noxious and unreasonable odor in a public place;
    (4) abuses or threatens a person in a public place in an obviously offensive manner;
    (5) makes unreasonable noise in a public place other than a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code, or in or near a private residence that he has no right to occupy;
    (6) fights with another in a public place;
    (7) discharges a firearm in a public place other than a public road or a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code;
    (8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunsforlife View Post
    If I read it correctly, Rodriguez was in the street antagonizing the three men and brandishing while they were on their own property. It seems Rodriguez was trying to get them to come out into the street and fight so he could then shoot them. Additionally, I believe TX has a component of their SYG law that states that one cannot claim SYG in the commission of a crime, which Rodriguez's brandishing obviously was.

    But yeah, this situation was manufactured from start to finish by Rodriguez. He knew he was going to shoot one or more of those guys before he even stepped foot outside of his house.
    I agree, and I'm amazed this wasn't charged as capital murder. There seems to have been a huge component
    of conscious planning and premeditation. I hate to second guess the prosecutor though, and at least it
    seems like justice is served and an object lessor taught. This case could be used in the CHL course as a text book
    example for what you are not allowed to do, and warning to hot heads about the stringent limits the law puts
    on the use of lethal force.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Texas does not have a brandishing law. It falls under disorderly conduct.
    Good to know, thanks. However, it would still be a crime which was one of the prosecutor's arguments against his SYG defense. You obviously can't see much in the video, but going off the dialogue, it seems there may be at least one instance where Rodriguez was pointing his weapon at the three(before he shot them).

    Hypothetical situation. Some hot head is pointing a gun at you and your two friends. Would you attempt to attack him unarmed? The mere insinuation of Rodriguez using self defense here is absurd. There may have been three of them, but they were unarmed and Rodriguez certainly had the upper hand from start to finish.

  14. #44
    Senior Member Array JohnLeVick's Avatar
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    I actually know the brother of the victim. He is a good friend of my son. I knew about this shooting a few days after it happened, because my son called me about it. The victim was a fine young man from a good, solid family. The shooter had a reputation as a neighborhood troublemaker and general nutcase. There are several lessons to be learned here, not the least of which is that the media will spin everything we hear. They've done the best they can to portray Rodriguez as the "typical stand-your-grounder," when in fact, nothing could be further from the truth. He was a trespasser, so the "ground' was not his to stand.

  15. #45
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    The unfortunate thing is that the neighbor might still be alive if THEY had called the cops on him. But they also felt the need to deal with the situation. I'm not saying the idiot shooter was right. What I am saying is that this situation might have been diffused if cooler heads had prevailed.
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