Gun-toting citizen foils robbery - Page 2

Gun-toting citizen foils robbery

This is a discussion on Gun-toting citizen foils robbery within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by retsupt99 This law coming to your state soon...hopefully! Tell me about it. It's one of the awful things that precludes more folks ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    This law coming to your state soon...hopefully!
    Tell me about it. It's one of the awful things that precludes more folks from standing up and helping. As cannibals, we've got to change tastes to BG's exclusively. The day that comes will be a happy day.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.


  2. #17
    New Member Array Pede's Avatar
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    I wondered what the thud was that fell in my yard that night. What a putts - shooting in the air. Guy needs some serious training. Although I give him credit for getting involved.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array my2cents's Avatar
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    I'm glad it turned out alright, but I'm waiting for the crys of "vigilante" to start. I started carrying to protect myself and my family, not to bust up robberies.
    Walk steathly - and carry a big Springfield.

  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    That's the second "shots in the air" in recent news. I will credit the guy with possibly saving lives in this instance. I prefer to "be sure of the target and what's behind it" over firing blindly.

    If he left the store, I think the correct reason for leaving would be to call 911 rather than to arm himself and go back in. Unless there's more to the story, like his wife was one of the threatened employees.

    Another demonstration that it's always a good idea to be in immediate possession of your firearm. I have worked hard to get the CWP and to get training on both when to shoot and how to shoot; I would feel like a total fool if I couldn't instantly grab my pistol when I really needed it.
    Last edited by Anubis; October 14th, 2006 at 09:21 AM.

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array PatrioticRick's Avatar
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    Where did the two shots end up? As a kid, a friend of mine was shot in the head, because of a shot into the air by someone on the 4th of July and ended up paralyzed from the neck down. Real stupid to shoot into the air.
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  6. #21
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    No matter how he managed it, he STOPPED an ARMED ROBBERY!

    Being critical of his actions is a little bit unfair to the GG. He may have fired the warning shots to help distract the BGs. He may not have had a clear shot at the BGs, so he decided to do whatever he could to stop or distract them. We don't have all the info......

    Granted my preference would be to not waste the ammo (or the lack of knowing where the rounds went...) on warning shots. That's where your training & hopefully your accuracy come in.

    At least he did more than WATCH! He jumped in & risked his own safety for OTHERS. This is the mark of a good man.

    If you carry a firearm, you also have the moral duty to stop miscriants like this from causing harm. You may not be LEOs, but you are carrying a firearm & if you're not willing to stop BGs when the situation arises.....then shame on you...........

    I'm all for being a good witness, but when called........ we better answer......if not & the BGs get away with it, their next victim(s) will sure be wishing you had stopped them.

    We can do all the Monday morning quarterbacking--------& hopefully learn from the mistakes we see, but at least in this instance the BGs lost & GGs won.

    No matter how we win, we must WIN & win by ANY means neccesary! The BGs make the rules & we have to play in their world when bad happens, so we have to win.

    Again, I tip my hat to a good man...........
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goawayfarm View Post
    If you carry a firearm, you also have the moral duty to stop miscriants like this from causing harm. You may not be LEOs, but you are carrying a firearm & if you're not willing to stop BGs when the situation arises.....then shame on you...........
    The moral posturing is something those non-LEO's in the crowd can do without. In your opinion, shame and guilt is due to those who do not jump in with both feet. For those not duly trained, that can cause a whole load of problems. Frankly, the cannibalistic U.S. legal system allows GG's to hang by their noogies far, far too often. So long as society enforces that sort of reality on GG's, good-samaritanism will merely sputter along. Sadly, it's the reality society has wished for itself. One would hope that merely being the GG and stopping a BG's actions would be enough. Happily, I'm now in a state that recognizes GG's with a somewhat more realistic approach (Oregon, no longer Calif.).
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    The moral posturing is something those non-LEO's in the crowd can do without. In your opinion, shame and guilt is due to those who do not jump in with both feet. For those not duly trained, that can cause a whole load of problems. Frankly, the cannibalistic U.S. legal system allows GG's to hang by their noogies far, far too often. So long as society enforces that sort of reality on GG's, good-samaritanism will merely sputter along. Sadly, it's the reality society has wished for itself. One would hope that merely being the GG and stopping a BG's actions would be enough. Happily, I'm now in a state that recognizes GG's with a somewhat more realistic approach (Oregon, no longer Calif.).
    I am not saying 'jump in with both feet', if you don't know what the situation envolves & whatever limits on your abilities are. Some will not be able to respond & others will be, for a multitude of reasons.

    However, if you carry a firearm you should be ready, willing & ABLE to if needed. If we aren't willing to stop evil ....

    Who the h__ will?

    If you fear being sued for doing the right thing....maybe you should rethink carrying or as some have said keep it in your pants. When it comes to defending the lives of others, I will not be shy & worry what a lawyer might do. I will do what is neccessary, call it 'moral posturing' if you like....to me it's called:

    Doing the RIGHT THING.....

    We have to change they way society sees us, even the way we see each other. It is our responsibilty to do the right thing, that's why we have a moral compass. It's also why we are the Sheepdogs & not sheep.

    I'm also not advocating that we are a substitute for LEOs. They have their job to do & it's not for everyone. I'm not a LEO & I don't pretend to be, but I still know that I have to do the right thing when required. If I witness a crime, I'm not just going to stand by & let it occur. I may not have to use a weapon, but I will not let BGs win. It may be as simple as calling the police, but I will do something. I'm not reckless, trigger-happy, blood-thirsty or suicidal, but my firearm is there for my protection as well as others.

    As to carrying a firearm for defense, you should be trained in when you can & cannot use a weapon. You should also be able to use the weapon you carry. I know that a lot of states don't require training & those that do, the training doesn't amount to a lot. It should be on the carriers shoulders that he/she should get good training. The more that are trained the better.

    I train constantly, I'm willing to bet, more than most even here & a lot more than most LEOs do. I take professional training regularly as well. I'm lucky in that I have a range at home & shoot 3 to 4 times a week. (I have the calluses, empty brass & HUGE bullet bills to prove it.)

    My philsophy is that if you carry, you have the responsibilty to know how to use it, as well as when & WHEN NOT TO. But in the end, you also have to be WILLING.

    Some here will take the attitude that 'I will protect my own & no more'....That's fine for them, just not for me. Some will just stand & watch, some will run and hide, others will respond. We've gotten to this state in our society by putting our heads in the sand & allowing evil to florish. It's time for it to stop, I've drawn my line in the sand. Now it's up to everyone to make their stand when required.

    I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do in any situation. What I am trying to do is encourage all who carry that they have a moral responsibility to do the RIGHT THING, whatever that may be.

    I am saying that this man tried to do the right thing & SUCCEEDED! He may have made mistakes, I wasn't there, so I can't say for sure. All we can hope for is that if we have to........WE SUCCEED!

    I try to live a quiet, peaceful life while hoping & praying that I never have to respond again to the evil in the world....but if it is required again, I can say I either tried & failed, or tried & succeeded.

    At least I'll be able to sleep at night in the knowledge I tried to do the right thing.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goawayfarm View Post
    If you fear being sued for doing the right thing....maybe you should rethink carrying ...
    Being charged/sued happens all the time. Hence, the "cannibalistic" comments. Folks shouldn't carry because of this? I'm supposed to place my family's security in jeopardy for someone else's opinions? Not a chance. However, we're not talking about me/mine. We're now talking about someone else, for that opinion. Big, big difference. The reality, with all that's on the line? Absolutely: it depends. Opinions be damned.

    You believe it's shameful for those who carry to withhold their good-samaritanism in the face of legal "cannibalism" by society against its samaritans? I believe it's shameful that such a system is allowed to exercise itself against the good guys. You believe it's shameful for folks who carry to not behave like LEO's as a blanket condemnation, despite the level of training or physical ability? I believe it's shameful to demand everyone feel guilty for realizing and considering the limiting factors, instead opting to do what one is able to do. Got a burning need to proclaim "Kitty Genovese" from the rooftops to those making that choice based on quiet reflection of the realities? Fine. Want it to be different? Speak to your legislators and demand they act. Until then, the realities will remain.

    Now, that said, I'd love things to be the way we wished them to be. Things are different. Sadly, so. One could say the world is what we make of it. Yet, our legal system allows that to simply not be so. It takes what we make of it and twist it, seemingly every day. That is a shame.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; October 15th, 2006 at 12:34 AM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goawayfarm View Post
    When it comes to defending the lives of others, I will not be shy & worry what a lawyer might do. I will do what is neccessary, call it 'moral posturing' if you like...
    The "moral posturing" comment was directed not at your desire to defend others. Laudable. It was directed at the insistence on deeming it a shameful act that others not all feel the same as you in all situations (as per the original posting you made, though not apparent in this last post), the implication being that any lack of defense of anyone in need is a moral failing.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Chief View Post
    It is a waste of ammunition to shoot up in the air; not once but twice!

    Especially when there were three perfectly good robbers to be shot.

    But yeah, I'm surprised that the guy found it "wise" to fire into the air. Equally surprised that he was not charged with something for having done so.

    I have to wonder how long it'll be before they give him back his gun. NO WONDER he's worried that the robbers will come back. I hope he has more than just that one gun!

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    Too bad he couldn't take out the one with the gun. Its good that the police got them. It must be really bad when you are afraid to be identifed because the crooks will come back and get you. Sounds like they need more cops in the area. Its hard to believe the cops took his gun. I see no reason for this action sinse no one was shot. What possible reason could the cops have. It wasn't the crime gun.

  13. #28
    Member Array Only Glock's Avatar
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    Good outcome, but not one, but two wasted shots. Should have put both into the dirtbag.
    When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
    From the essay "TRIBES" by Bill Whittle

  14. #29
    New Member Array Wild Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    Discharging a round into the air is just foolish, IMHO.

    Matt
    I agree discharging your firearm into the air to warn the perp is foolish as well as illegal in most areas.
    __________________________________________________
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  15. #30
    Member Array Ipack's Avatar
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    I'd be worried too if the cops had my firearm!
    "Remember the first rule of gunfighting..."have a gun""

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