BAD: CCW Negligent Discharge injures child - Page 4

BAD: CCW Negligent Discharge injures child

This is a discussion on BAD: CCW Negligent Discharge injures child within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Sorry that's just nonsense. That's like calling someone a criminal if they're out and having a normal non-criminal life. A Felon is current. Ex-Felon is ...

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Thread: BAD: CCW Negligent Discharge injures child

  1. #46
    Ex Member Array Jollymann's Avatar
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    Sorry that's just nonsense. That's like calling someone a criminal if they're out and having a normal non-criminal life. A Felon is current. Ex-Felon is not. Ex-felon is right. For that matter, I've referred to myself as an ex-Marine. I'm no longer in, therefore ex-Marine. Same as Ex-convict or Ex-Felon. It's fashionable to say that you're not ever an ex-Marine, but you still are. So that is a poor example.

    Look, this is programed wordplay to justify the permanence of restrictive laws on people. You are programed to think that way therefore you think always a felon. But that is logically ridicules. When someone has been punished for something and that is over, it's no longer current. It doesn't apply anymore. Theoretically that is the way it is supposed to be. When the gunfighter who spent 10 years in Yuma prison for some killing during a robbery or in hot blood comes out, he gets his guns and a horse back, (or at least trainfare) and walks out a free man. He stands as tall as anyone else and tries to find his family or his old girlfriends. The idea is that it's over and he's not a criminal then. Maybe before. But not NOW! Get me?

    As for the way the law looks at it or some parole officers look at it, it may be the case. But I still consider it a fallacy and wrong. Also it’s common to hear both terms. I didn’t pull “ex-felon” out of a magic hat.

    D.J.

    P.S. Let me add this to the mix. Look at yourselves. If you made a mistake and pulled a job and got caught and did time for it, would you consider yourself to be a perpetual criminal or a perpetual felon? Because that is what you're actually saying. I don't think you would. You would think you're reformed. Or an ex-convict (not a current convict). Or an ex felon (not a current felon). You would think that was in the past and not now. And it would be. Therefore now a good citizen. Also you would correct people whenever you had the chance. Like so. "I am not a felon."
    Last edited by Jollymann; July 26th, 2012 at 01:44 AM.


  2. #47
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Call it what you want, it's still wrong.

    I can call myself Senator, it's still wrong.

    It falls into the same category as alcoholic. You are always an alcoholic even if you have chosen not to drink for X years.

    How about Child Molester. Once you've done it you are one. No "ex" to it.

    A person can be an ex-convict once released, but not ex-felon. Again, ask a legal expert. Look it up in Mirriam Webster. They've been defining words since 1742.

    In the end, you can call a person that has committed the atrocities I mentioned earlier a Rosebud for all I care, in my personal opinion they still chose to act in a way that should terminate those rights. JMO.
    gasmitty likes this.
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  3. #48
    TOF
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    With an XD he had to have a full grip on the gun for it to go boom. Has anybody else considered he might have carried a single bottle of milk to the register with intent to rob the cashier rather than buy milk. That could explain taking a full grip and running after the big surprise.
    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." - Thomas Jefferson

  4. #49
    VIP Member Array BenGoodLuck's Avatar
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    Accidents happen, whether with guns or with cars. The key to preventing accidents with guns is to constantly maintain awareness that you have a concealed firearm on or about your person. When putting your hand in the pocket with the gun, you have to be thinking: "I'm about to touch or go near my weapon. Is it secure? Am I being safe?" This was clearly negligence, whether he had a proper holster or not.

    At least the reporter wrote: "The man...accidentally pulled the trigger of his Springfield .40-caliber semi-automatic pistol.

    It wasn't: "The pistol accidentally discharged..."
    Ben

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  5. #50
    GH
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    I can imagine that as he was gripping the pistol (?) & activating the grip safety & at the same time the trigger snagged on something that pulled it. Accident? Yes. Negligence? Yes indeed! Depending on which way the muzzle was pointing at that time it could have been a lot worse. He could have blown off his family jewels for instance. I'd call that poetic justice.
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  6. #51
    Member Array Gunsmoke16's Avatar
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    How in the world did he manage to pull the trigger on a gun (that others say has a grip safety)...INSIDE A HOLSTER? Other reports say it dropped and accidentally discharged, breaking the concrete and striking him in both buttocks with others wounded from flying chips concrete....Which is correct and what ACTUALLY HAPPENED? If he discharged it in his pants, the fire
    from the muzzle probably cauterized the first wound...no wonder he was running around. So, what REALLY happened?

  7. #52
    Member Array Gunsmoke16's Avatar
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    Pic here: Concealed gun owner shoots own buttocks and wounds children at Dallas Walmart | The Raw Story makes gun look like that compact version. I've fired full-size, but dunno if this one has grip safety or not. Should have a trigger safety. Don't understand how he could pull trigger if it was IN HOLSTER. One report says it was dropped, causing
    AD that ricochet up, striking both is buttocks and flying concrete chips injured others??? If that's the case, have there been
    any more reports of accidental discharge from these guns dropping?

  8. #53
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    The story doesn't say that he had a holster and that would be a likely situation as he probably just did the "movie thing" and put it in the small of his back between his waistband and back. And THAT is stupidity.
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  9. #54
    Ex Member Array 1911247's Avatar
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    The way i see it. The guy messed up. He had a CCW, but was not carrying safely. He did not have an accidental discharge, he had a negligent one. And then he fled the scene which does NO good for Weapons rights at all. Screwing up is something people do. its in our nature.

    Owning up to your mistakes takes a very level headed mature person. This man was not. he messed up and made it worse for himself. And his messup hurt innocent people. Which just drives another Nail in his coffin.

    I usually defend gun owners, as a NRA instructor i like to find out WHY things have happened and see if it was weapon related or stupid related. This was stupid related. I say throw the book at him.
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  10. #55
    Member Array Lanner's Avatar
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    Negligent discharge. Thats not an accident if you pull the trigger.

    Ive heard of accidental discharges but maybe 1-2 real ones.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    One more reason why I feel signs should have the force of law. ... if a business prohibits carry then they should be liable for people getting shot or killed on their property, well wouldn't the opposit also be true? That if a business allows carry and someone gets shot on their property, shouldn't they be also be liable ...
    Both positions are wrong - you don't have to go into the store, and a store owner shouldn't be liable for his customer's negligence.

  12. #57
    Ex Member Array 1911247's Avatar
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    Also walmart sides with state law, if you can legally carry in your state, you can legally carry in walmart, unless the GM has said otherwise then the digression of the issue is up to him.

  13. #58
    Ex Member Array Jollymann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by accessbob View Post
    The story doesn't say that he had a holster and that would be a likely situation as he probably just did the "movie thing" and put it in the small of his back between his waistband and back. And THAT is stupidity.
    Disagree with that. An actual expert can pack Mexican style the same as any other way. You simply take precautions. I'll dammed well do it occasionally as I previously described. Why ought it be a problem if you know guns know handguns know how to handle them? If someone can't handle a loaded piece and put it in the waist band safely, then he's simply a dopey, frightened, spastic! I learned about that before I packed with holsters in public and there were times when it made more sense too.

    I'll add also that yes, there is a difference between negligent and accidental. But you can have both at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive. And packing without a holdster doesn't make it automatically negligent. Not at all. Sometimes it simply makes sense. It's an individuial choice and to devil with anyone who interfers with personal choice with guns and the man.

    Also regardless of the nature of the incident if the guy didn't mean to fire a bullet through his leg right then and there, no matter that he pulled the trigger, it was still an accident. Maybe a ridicules one, and maybe a negligent one, but still an accident. The only way it's not an accident would be if he meant to do it. I don't care if everyone feels it's politcally incorrect to call things accidents. It still is by definition.

    D.J.
    Last edited by Jollymann; July 26th, 2012 at 01:47 AM. Reason: added, corrected typos

  14. #59
    Senior Member Array Lish's Avatar
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    I'm curious about the rest of the story - all the details at this point that have been left out. Was it indeed in a holster? Was it a holster made to fit his gun? Was it a soft one, Kydex, etc.

    It doesn't really matter to me what it's called - an accident, a negligence, whatever (although the term I would use is negligent because while he didn't mean to pull the trigger he was negligent in handling it safely) Even if the discharge could be forgiven, he ran away. That's the part of the story I can't get past. If you are responsible enough to carry a firearm, you must be responsible enough to own up to whatever happens. You don't run away like a coward or a criminal.
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  15. #60
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jollymann View Post
    Disagree with that. An actual expert can pack Mexican style the same as any other way. You simply take precautions. I'll dammed well do it occasionally as I previously described. Why ought it be a problem if you know guns know handguns know how to handle them? If someone can't handle a loaded piece and put it in the waist band safely, then he's simply a dopey, frightened, spastic! I learned about that before I packed with holsters in public and there were times when it made more sense too.

    I'll add also that yes, there is a difference between negligent and accidental. But you can have both at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive. And packing without a holdster doesn't make it automatically negligent. Not at all. Sometimes it simply makes sense. It's an individuial choice and to devil with anyone who interfers with personal choice with guns and the man.

    Also regardless of the nature of the incident if the guy didn't mean to fire a bullet through his leg right then and there, no matter that he pulled the trigger, it was still an accident. Maybe a ridicules one, and maybe a negligent one, but still an accident. The only way it's not an accident would be if he meant to do it. I don't care if everyone feels it's politcally incorrect to call things accidents. It still is by definition.

    D.J.
    I've done a ton of reading over the years and I have yet to see a single person who is widely recognized as an expert when it comes to firearms, carrying, and safety condone or recommend carrying IWB without a holster that accomplishes two objectives: 1) Secures the position of the weapon 2) Covers the trigger.

    As a matter of fact, a vast majority of accredited experts go as far as to say it is irresponsible. I would be interested in knowing what actual expert supports IWB no holster. They may be out there, I've just never run across one. There's always a first time.

    As for why it is a problem if you know how to carry and handle firearms? Ask Plaxico Burress.
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