Denver Perpetrator in Psych Care

This is a discussion on Denver Perpetrator in Psych Care within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Colorado Shooting Suspect James Holmes Was a Psychiatric Patient: Court Papers - WSJ.com The University of Colorado graduate student suspected of a mass shooting last ...

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    Post Denver Perpetrator in Psych Care

    Colorado Shooting Suspect James Holmes Was a Psychiatric Patient: Court Papers - WSJ.com

    The University of Colorado graduate student suspected of a mass shooting last week in Aurora, Colo., was seeing a psychiatrist as a patient, according to court documents filed Friday, offering the first official evidence that he had seen a mental-health professional.
    "Mr. Holmes was a psychiatric patient of Dr. Fenton, and his communications with her are protected," states the motion by Daniel King, a state public defender who is representing Mr. Holmes. The disclosure of the package, he argues, "has placed Mr. Holmes' constitutional rights to due process and a fair trial by an impartial jury in serious jeopardy."

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    This case may cost us some freedoms.....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Psych care does not necessarily mean he is dangerous. But, I am sure that those who made this information public hoped to convey that it does.

    Michael

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    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Psych care does not necessarily mean he is dangerous
    Exactly, it doesn't at all...
    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable- JFK

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    For reference ... The current 4473 reference (question 11.F) to psych concerns having been either adjudicated "mentally defective" or committed to an institution.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    Member Array ponchsox's Avatar
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    If he tells his Psych he wants to hurt people are they required to keep it confidential?

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    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponchsox View Post
    If he tells his Psych he wants to hurt people are they required to keep it confidential?
    If I understand the lawyer on the news who was trying to "spoon feed" the general public on this subject.....If the shooter told his shrink a detailed specific plans with actual places or dates, or specific names (actual people)....she would have to report it...by law. The lawyer stressed that it had to be very specific....no generalities.
    Last edited by Spirit51; July 27th, 2012 at 08:32 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponchsox View Post
    If he tells his Psych he wants to hurt people are they required to keep it confidential?
    I believe if the doctor has strong reasons to believe that the patient is intending on committing a crime, he/she has a legal obligation to notify the authorities.

    Holmes' case, like Cho's case, screams out for better mental health care in this country. (Cho was apparently turned away when he sought psychiatric care.)

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Psych care does not necessarily mean he is dangerous. But, I am sure that those who made this information public hoped to convey that it does.

    Michael
    I only brought this up because it was not that long ago that it was being reported that returning soldiers who had been treated for symptoms of PTSD could lose their right to bear arms. Then the pendulum swung in our favor with people claiming that seeking treatment for an ailment should not on its own be evidence of instability or insanity. Now with this new tragedy the pendulum seems to be swinging the other way. With people saying that seeking treatment should be a red flag when it comes to firearms. That anyone who seeks help for a mental issue should be forced to reveal those records.
    Sometimes the pendulum swings so fast people are on the other side before they know it.

    Michael
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    It is a very difficult balancing act...........Privacy and Rights.........

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    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb1900 View Post
    Holmes' case, like Cho's case, screams out for better mental health care in this country.
    Reality check. Whose going to run this more invasive program of detection? The government? They helped screw it up in the first place. Whose rules for measuring mental fitness are we going to use? Here is the biggie. Who is going to pay for it?? This country is broke already from the useless programs that produce NO actionable or useable results.
    Last edited by Spirit51; July 27th, 2012 at 08:27 PM. Reason: added "useable"
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    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    Reality check. Whose going to run this more invasive program of detection? The government? They helped screw it up in the first place. Whose rules for measuring mental fitness are we going to use? Here is the biggie. Who is going to pay for it?? This country is broke already from the useless programs that produce NO actionable results.
    You have read my mind..It will be common sense legislation that will be the end of the U.S......
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    In general terms, most people when asked would concur with the generalized statement of "Crazy people should be limited when it comes to gun availability." Now, where the problem comes in is once there is a line, who gets to decide where it gets drawn, moved, etc. What defines crazy. Is it anyone who sees a psychiatrist? Therapist? Counselor? Anyone taking anything for mood, anxiety, or depression? It just depends on where the line is drawn and where it gets moved.

    There's a big difference in someone who is seeing a counselor or therapist, such as a marriage counselor, because their spouse has run off with the pool boy and someone who is seeing a psychiatrist because they see flying otters which aren't really there and they believe they are out to get them. Who gets to decide on either or both?
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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    Everytime I see a doctor at the VA they ask a list of questions like are you sleeping ok,do you have recurring dreams/nightmares,have you thought about hurting yourself or other people etc.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    Member Array mb1900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    Reality check. Whose going to run this more invasive program of detection? The government? They helped screw it up in the first place. Whose rules for measuring mental fitness are we going to use? Here is the biggie. Who is going to pay for it?? This country is broke already from the useless programs that produce NO actionable or useable results.
    You need a reality check, too, instead of getting your agendas mixed up with mine. (1) I didn't say anything about a Big Brother program, healthcare reform, etc. (2) Whatever obstacles to better healthcare there may be, it does not affect the truth that better healthcare will reduce the number of psycho killer attacks. In Cho's case, if the university health services had taken his complaint seriously and treated him, a tragedy might have been avoided. (He approached the health services and asked for treatment. They turned him away.)

    We have to catch the problem at the root. We can't be like the TSA, trying to catch the objects rather than the terrorists. That's the gun-banning approach. The armed citizen is the last line of defense, and has some serious weaknesses as a strategy. Other than the obvious (varying degrees of ability, varying degrees of concentration), the attacker could always just set off a bomb instead. A fat lot of good our CCW will do us in that situation. There are other more nefarious attacks that the armed citizen has no defense against. We must tackle the real problem (people with serious mental illnesses), rather than trying to ban the tools (guns), or to address the problem as it surfaces (responding to the actual attack with our CCW). The last option is like trying to catch a bullet.

    Of course, in Breivik's case, it is not mental health. It's his extremist politics. Alright, so my suggestion will miss out on real wickedness. Fortunately in the US we have more crazy mass shooters.

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