Good: local opinion piece on personal responsibility for self defense

Good: local opinion piece on personal responsibility for self defense

This is a discussion on Good: local opinion piece on personal responsibility for self defense within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I thought that I'd share another short piece from a local journalist/talk show host. It is an excellent, but short, read on how it's a ...

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    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Good: local opinion piece on personal responsibility for self defense

    I thought that I'd share another short piece from a local journalist/talk show host.

    It is an excellent, but short, read on how it's a free citizen's right to self defense, and they don't need anyone's permission.

    http://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/arc...or-permission/

    Sent from my Galaxy S2
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source


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    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Good stuff.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
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    Member Array Maine_Expat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad426 View Post
    Good stuff.
    Not good. EXCELLENT stuff!
    Crescentstar likes this.

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    Some are in a world of denial because we have been taught “call the cops” any time we have trouble

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    I hope that kind of thinking gets more "air time."
    Smitty
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    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Writer makes great sense of what we have become.
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    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

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    Senior Member Array Dandyone's Avatar
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    Thumbs up to the article.
    GGs
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    ”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.”

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    LOL "Learned Helplessness" I love it!
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    Senior Member Array Caertaker's Avatar
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    It is a good article and nice to see this type of info being made easily accessible to the average Joe. However, if Lt Col Grossman’s theories on violence against our own species are correct the problem has deeper roots than modern days.

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    It's a good article... But...
    Sorry, in my mind there's a "but"... actually two of 'em

    My first objection is this... He indicates that the "trained" are the only ones that can resist... He talks down about the statist attitude that only "state operators" can stop this sort of thing... But then suggests that only the elite who have "...paid the price, monetary and otherwise, to develop skill at arms and the crucial mindset that allows them to act rather than simply react." can do anything. And he declares, more or less, that everyone should be armed and trained.

    There are people who choose not to carry arms for any reason... And, there are those who think we're wannabes for doing so... There are those who actually do believe that the state is going to save the day... Sending the cops in... SWAT will stop this guy etc. (They don't take into account the body count before LEO gets there). Some people simply don't want the responsibility of carry... or of self defense...

    And, realize that only a small percentage of the citizens of this country have permits to carry. Realize also that there were some trained military operators in the theater that night... and they did the best they could do in their assessment of what was happening... they did not attack, they used their bodies as shields, protecting their loved ones and paying the ultimate price for doing so.

    In the setting where this occurred, it could be natural to assume that what the perpetrator did was "a part of the show," a "stunt" for the premier. Giving the murderer a distinct advantage in surprise, and a body count long before realization of the reality set in.

    The other problem, knowing what we know about the percentage of citizens with a permit to carry is that, at best, one out of 100 might have been armed. And the likelihood of them being trained beyond the permit requirements was smaller yet.

    My second big objection is that for his notion to work it would require a "sea change" in America... Training the masses from an early age to be "aggressively defensive." That is going to take generations to fix. It will not happen any time soon... probably not in our lifetimes (don't matter how young or old you are reading this...)

    ACTCert is doing a job of training students to take care of an "active shooter" on some campuses across the country... We all saw it as a "must watch" video, posted here on DC some time back:



    Great stuff... But if only one or two in the theater had seen the training (on you tube) or actually gone through it... how long would it take to organize 100 terrified patrons into action... in a dark theater, with smoke and live fire? How long? Too long.

    One of the biggest problems presented by the actual events was this... even if 10 people in that theater were permitted carriers, law abiding citizens... How many of them would have gone into the theater armed? It was posted.

    Even the most hard core of us who don't go to theaters might have left our gun in the car rather than jeopardize our son (grandson, whatever) seeing the premier if that was what they wanted to do... We might have grumbled... "never again" but we might have left the gun in the car.. or at home, that night for that special event...

    So, even those who are armed most of the time... even the "elite" with training... even Gecko himself would probably, grudgingly, have respected the establishment's right to declare itself a "gun free zone"...

    That's what needs to change... Wisconsin's new carry law says that 'if an establishment declares itself "gun free," the establishment is liable for the safety of the patrons...' (that's a paraphrase)

    That should be the goal in every state... and apply to all places, including universities, courthouses, schools and other state establishments. And if the state bans carrying in bars, and places that serve liquor, and churches or any other such... the state should be liable for the patrons' safety. Private enterprises who choose to be gun free zones must be willing to insure the potential victims won't be victimized, and be willing to pay the price if they are.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    oakchas, I can see how you can come away with that conclusion.

    I must say, however, that I've listened to Bryan Hyde for over a decade and I believe that he would agree with you on most points.

    It is true, it's his opinion that all citizens ought to be armed and trained. But his ardor for liberty is greater than that of his right to self defense. Indeed, self defense is at the root, the preservation of personal life and liberty. Therefore, if you disagree that is your right, and noone can take it from you.

    I do believe that you misunderstood his statist comment. I am at work and will re-read the article to see if I can see where you are coming from.

    Sent from my Galaxy S2
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    oakchas, I can see how you can come away with that conclusion.

    I must say, however, that I've listened to Bryan Hyde for over a decade and I believe that he would agree with you on most points.

    It is true, it's his opinion that all citizens ought to be armed and trained. But his ardor for liberty is greater than that of his right to self defense. Indeed, self defense is at the root, the preservation of personal life and liberty. Therefore, if you disagree that is your right, and noone can take it from you.

    I do believe that you misunderstood his statist comment. I am at work and will re-read the article to see if I can see where you are coming from.

    Sent from my Galaxy S2
    From the article:
    Naysayers and statists often dismiss the notion of non-state actors successfully taking an active role in stopping an attack as so much Walter Mittyish fantasizing. But anyone who has attended a quality firearms training or self defense academy knows better.
    His attitude is there... it's very discreet... but it's there
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    Makes sense to me!
    Hiram25
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    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    One painful lesson that has emerged from the Colorado movie theater shooting is the realization that, in most violent crimes, too many intended victims simply refuse to fight back.

    In the Tucson shooting incident, Jared Loughner was subdued by bystanders and held for the police. The victims fought back against the attacker. On September 11, 2001 passengers on United Flight 93 fought back against their attackers. Perhaps it's only moviegoers or Batman fans who don't fight back.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene83 View Post
    One painful lesson that has emerged from the Colorado movie theater shooting is the realization that, in most violent crimes, too many intended victims simply refuse to fight back.

    In the Tucson shooting incident, Jared Loughner was subdued by bystanders and held for the police. The victims fought back against the attacker. On September 11, 2001 passengers on United Flight 93 fought back against their attackers. Perhaps it's only moviegoers or Batman fans who don't fight back.
    There were those in the Jared Loughner shooting spree who had permits to carry, who were carrying at the time who did nothing because there were too many innocents in the way...

    In a dark theater... tell me how you would have stopped the guy.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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