Rape not great bodily harm?!

Rape not great bodily harm?!

This is a discussion on Rape not great bodily harm?! within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I was just reading the paper and about fell over! Apparently a trial is starting tomorrow in Orlando where a woman is being charged in ...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Lish's Avatar
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    Angry Rape not great bodily harm?!

    I was just reading the paper and about fell over! Apparently a trial is starting tomorrow in Orlando where a woman is being charged in her ex's death. She's stating she shot him during a rape and is using Stand Your Ground as a defense. Apparently the prosecutor is planning on arguing the judge to not allow that defense because rape is not great bodily harm. SERIOUSLY?! I get there are sketchy parts to the case, supposedly the woman admitted she stabbed herself which makes it all sound weird, but to argue rape isn't great bodily harm?! I'm appalled
    George Zimmerman judge and Stand Your Ground: Zimmerman judge holds Stand Your Ground hearing in another murder case - Orlando Sentinel


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    Member Array urkrypt0nite's Avatar
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    I don't like that case at all, I'd be running away from it if I was a lawyer. Consensual sex prior to the rape, conflicting reasons for her stab wound...what a nightmare.

    Rape is definitely great bodily harm as well as mental trauma.

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    Even if they want to argue there is "no" great bodily harm, what about the psychological harm? This is so obsurd. I dont understand defense lawyers at all. Maybe its about the money or fame in a high profile case but how could anyone want to protect the monsters? Yea, yea, "innocent until proven guilty" but what about crimes caught in the act?
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    It may be the circumstances of the case since they were married.Before I get ripped on,I agree that even in a marriage when one party says no and the other forces themselves on the other against their will IT IS RAPE.
    But I'm thinking this is one situation where the Wife may have set him up to murder him,but then claim he was raping her,If it was as she claims why would she cut herself.I'm wondering if there is a life insurance policy she or the children are beneficiaries of
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    JD
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    Great bodily harm:

    (c) "Great bodily harm" means bodily injury which creates a probability of death, or which causes significant serious permanent disfigurement, or which causes a significant permanent loss or impairment of the function of any bodily part or organ;


    This is the definition from Washington State code, but is pretty much spot on for the standard definition of GBH and as such, rape in of itself does not fit the bill despite the psychological damage.

    Rape is still a forcible felony that if I recall correctly, is covered by FL's stand your ground law.

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    JD
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    Florida Code:


    JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE
    776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—

    A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

    (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or


    ....


    JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

    View Entire Chapter
    776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

    Looking at the definitions, sexual battery = rape.

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    Rape is a forcible felony and any forcible felony allows deadly force by Utah's laws. (And should in EVERY state) IMO.
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    Senior Member Array Happypuppy's Avatar
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    Something is wrong with the picture. She admits to stabbing herself? I suspect there is more to the story


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    I think the reason people have a hard time separating rape from "great bodily harm" is because when we think of rape victims we think of bruised, battered and bleeding women.

    There are people who are raped who provide zero resistance and are not physically harmed. They did not suffer "great bodily harm." Which is why rape is still considered a forcible felony and usually legal to defend against with lethal force.

    I don't care what laws I have to use... a rose by any other name smells as sweet... so I'll claim forcible felony vs self defense. Either way, I'm still covered.

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    Senior Member Array Dandyone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ionracas View Post
    ... but what about crimes caught in the act?
    Exactly! I'm so friggin' tired of hearing the word 'alleged' applied to that Colorado psychopath!
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    In Ohio rape is clearly included in grave bodily harm.

    That case sounds like a nightmare for any lawyer.
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    Senior Member Array kb2wji's Avatar
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    This is what a lawyer will come up with when he doesnt have any other, better options. Even the BG's are entitled to representation. Probably not this lawyer's favorite client at the moment...

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    Member Array Ionracas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kb2wji View Post
    This is what a lawyer will come up with when he doesnt have any other, better options. Even the BG's are entitled to representation. Probably not this lawyer's favorite client at the moment...
    Does a lawyer not have the right to refuse a case?

    I have no problem with BGs lawyering up. Sometimes the BG may not be as bad afterall, this case MIGHT become an example of that. I think however if someone is caught in the act without any reasonable doubt, there should be immediate sentencing.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    A distasteful distinction to be making, I'll agree.

    To my way of thinking, there's good reason that the sequence of most-severe violent "person" crimes generally goes like this: murder, robbery, rape, kidnapping, and so on down the line. Rape's up there on the list for good reason, particularly since it has every possibility of requiring deadly violence or the threat of it to succeed. IMO, it's hard to make the claim that rape doesn't constitute legitimate, reasonable fear of death or great physical bodily harm.

    And the people of Florida have shown they agree. Reality is, it's such a potentially violent act that so often coincides with great physical damage that it's unsurprising many states, including Florida, have enacted statutes that PRESUME that such situations create a reasonable and justifiable fear of death or great harm. In any place a person has every right to be, particularly in one's own home.

    Seems to me that the Florida statutes on SYG are reasonably clear, in well-established and -accepted situations of "forcible violence." The defendant's attorney is trying to claim SYG doesn't apply because of lack of fear of great bodily harm? Well, in Florida that's not the only legal criterion for SYG [FS 776.013 (3)]:

    Florida Statutes 776.013 (3) -- A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another OR to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
    She's claiming she was being forcibly raped in her home while her children were there. 776.013 applies, I'd say.


    Quote Originally Posted by From the article
    On May 4, 2010, Smithey and Cline had gone to bed, had sex, and then she got up and showered, according to a police report. She asked him to leave, she told police, but he grabbed her, pulled her back into bed, got on top of her and accused her of sleeping with someone else.

    He then placed what she believed to be a knife at her throat, she told police.

    He turned away, she said, allowing her to pull a .38-caliber revolver from a nightstand and place it under her pillow.

    When he turned back, he began having rough sex, she said. She told him he was hurting her and to stop, but he didn't, according to the police report. She then pointed the pistol at his midsection.

    He leaned forward, she said, and the gun went off. Still, he didn't get off, she told police, so she pulled the trigger, and the gun fired again.
    Commit a violent forcible felony against another ... you risk the one you're attacking saying 'no.'
    Last edited by ccw9mm; August 1st, 2012 at 05:48 AM. Reason: spelling
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    Member Array mdmorgan's Avatar
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    I think she murdered him. That said, The prosecutor doesn't have a leg to stand on with the argument that rape isn't great bodily harm. It is spelled out in the code as a forcible felony, so under Florida law if she was being raped the shooting was justified. On the other hand, I think her lawyer is in for a rough time too. That kind of rape is a very hard crime to prove. She admits to having consensual sex with him every Monday for months, including that Monday, but claims he raped her on the second go that day? Could be, but awful hard to prove. I think if the prosecutor goes the route of saying a woman being raped is NOT justified in using deadly force, he will lose big. I think the smart thing for him to do would be to argue that she was never raped and that she used her weekly sex appointment with her husband as a chance to kill him and claim self defense.
    If a story smells bad...........
    And boy this story stinks.
    Last edited by Rock and Glock; August 1st, 2012 at 12:34 PM.
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