Definitely Not Good...

Definitely Not Good...

This is a discussion on Definitely Not Good... within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Fortunately, she didn't get killed. Union County woman shot by home intruder with her own gun Knoxville News Sentinel...

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Thread: Definitely Not Good...

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Definitely Not Good...

    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius


  2. #2
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    Let me guess - probably never had any training beyond someone showing her how to load it. Glad she survived the attack, but I hope it's a wake-up call and not a reason to get on a soapbox and shout how guns won't defend you.
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    Glad that she's okay as well. I like to check out all the comments (if that option is available) on articles like this and of course you see the usual anti's posts.

    For her to of been disarmed, I'm guessing she hesitated to shoot the scumbag, giving him just enough time to attack and strip her of the firearm.
    "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin
    "Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn." - C.S. Lewis

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    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Hard to say exactly what happened. The story is a bit short of details. Apparently, she could have used some more training with the weapon. At the same time, it's possible that the thief was unarmed and there was just enough hesitation on her part to allow him to get the gun from her.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Probably closed within 10 feet or less arms outstretched pointing gun and freaking out,he saw she wasn't mentally prepared to use a gun and took advantage of the situation
    Spirit51 likes this.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    It has been stated here several times. She didn't have the resolve to fire the weapon. She allowed the BG to get it and shoot her. The woman was not prepared for actual self defense.

    Unless she gets more professional training and a new attitude, she shouldn't attempt that again. A weapon may not be for her.

    Successful self defense is more than training and tactics....it is also the resolve to follow through if necessary and kill the BG without hesitation.
    mprp likes this.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    There's one other possibility that shouldn't be overlooked. She may have known the thief. This is a pretty remote and rural area. One of those places where most everybody knows most everybody else. Sadly, it's also an area where meth is rapidly becoming the drug of choice and methheads will steal from friends, family, or anybody else to support their addiction.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911247 View Post
    Very well said.

    We dont go sky diving if were not going to jump out of the plane.
    We dont go swimming if we cant swim.
    We dont wait in line for 3 hours at sixflags if were not going to get on a rollercoaster.

    So why people who arnt going to shoot buy guns......i will never know.
    I understand what you're saying, but some people will never know if they can pull the trigger of a gun pointed at another human until they're in that situation. All the training in the world, even mental training and working on mindset may not be enough. Some people (no matter how prepared they THINK they are) just can't go through with taking a life, and that's not really a bad thing. I've known LEOs who had all the same training I've had, and grew up as hunters, but when it came down to it, and the situation presented it's self, they could not pull the trigger when the target was another person.
    Last edited by sigmanluke; August 2nd, 2012 at 01:31 AM. Reason: add emphasis
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Going to "investigate" is all good and well, but as this example shows: getting to within contact-distance proximity can make all the difference. Bad juju. Wake-up call indeed.

    Exactly. I teach my students a cardinal rule. You dont clear leather unless you are GOING to kill the person.

    Rule of thumb. Dont point a gun at anything unless your ready to destroy it. This not only applies in firearms safety, but also in self defense. A weapon can be used to save your life, but if your not mentally prepared to take a life with it, it can quickly be taken from you and take yours.
    Yup.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; August 2nd, 2012 at 08:01 AM. Reason: grammar, spelling
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    VIP Member
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    Sounds like a valuable class to take.....And I understand the reality behind it, the more realistic you can get their mind to make it, the better understanding they will have what their conclusion involves. It still doesn't mean that everyone who comes back humbled and quiet that decided that they CAN take another human's life, will ACTUALLY be able to do it.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

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    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    I think this is a human quality even in the face of an adversary to not want to injure or kill another human being, even if it is someone who would think nothing about injuring or killing another. Evil lurks among us.

    We are taught or supposedly that it is wrong to injure or kill another human, even in the face of danger. We are told to give the benefit of the doubt. We are told to be compassionate, forgiving and that no harm will come to us if we show it. Well, that is not always true.

    While I would never want to shoot someone, like all the anti's say I would, deep down, my instinct of self-preservation to continue my physical existience would kick in at some point and the attacker will be met with equal or greater force than what is being applied. Too bad this woman does not have much of the basic instinct for survival. Most likely she will be targeted again because she has exhibited that. She needs some adjustment of this, or she will always be a victim and at some point, she will get killed in the process.
    vca2004 likes this.
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  12. #12
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoGunn View Post
    We are taught or supposedly that it is wrong to injure or kill another human, even in the face of danger.
    You're right: that's a recipe that can often be incompatible with survival. Turn the other cheek to such criminals, and one can easily find out what it's like on the other side of the veil.

    I was taught it's wrong to rise up to harm another, but that it's righteous to rise up in order to smite evil. Our codified laws support this, even though in a seemingly-twisted fashion.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array Lish's Avatar
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    I wish there was a little more detail - maybe more will come out or she'll even be interviewed at some point. Maybe she hesitated because he was grabbing the tv and she didn't want to shoot over property, maybe he was young and she had a hard time from that standpoint, maybe like someone else said she recognized him. Or maybe she didn't have training. I'm curious as to what was in play.

    I was against having guns in my home until last year when someone tried to break in. I knew just buying one, loading it and putting it in the safe wasn't enough. I would like to do some formal training (besides the required couple hour CCW class I took) but haven't been able to do so yet. Even though I haven't done formal training, I get to the range pretty often, I read a lot on the subject, I've made sure I can clear a jam, basically I've made sure I can use it and use it pretty well. I've also put a lot of thought into different senarios - could I if this, could I if that... For me it was important to make my peace with not only knowing how to use it but being ready psychologically ready to.

    I'm glad she lived through the ordeal.

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    I wish we knew more, too... In the end, the very end, it comes down to mindset. Can you take the life of another? Really, honestly? To some degree, you have got to get in touch with your lizard brain, throw away all your humanity and realize it's you or them.

    To some degree you can train for it. But, in WWI and II, Korea, and even as lately as 'Nam, soldiers were trained for it... but didn't do it. We learned how to train them better, finally. It requires a little FoF training.

    Google "the Truth about Killing" on you tube... the series is an interesting experience in what it took to teach our armed forces how to kill.

    Another way to become capable of killing is to practice... practice... practice. But that doesn't mean range time... in fact, forget about the range... any time you draw your weapon, you commence firing at the target (at least man shaped, better if it's a realistic picture)... make it automatic... don't pick up your brass, just draw and shoot... any time your weapon is in its holster on your hip, if you withdraw it, you start shooting. You can see how this isn't the best way to train to do this, but it will work...

    There are the stories... the cop who lost the gunfight because he stopped to pick up his brass during a reload That's what he did at the range... the cop who was trained to disarm a firearm wielding thug... and in practice, he handed the gun back to the "actor" to go again... So, he did it in real life, he disarmed a thug and gave the thug his gun back... and then realized his mistake and took it again... without the return the second time.

    I don't believe there's much of a middle ground. In order to KNOW you will pull the trigger to defend yourself, you must either train to fire as soon as you draw your weapon... or... you have to train in realistic FoF training with simunitions or paintballs or even airsoft with face gear only (for the airsoft).
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  15. #15
    Member Array 8th ID's Avatar
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    I'm very happy the woman survived this. Without more detail, I'd be hard pressed to say what would be a real fix in her situation. Training maybe, but I really think it comes down to a person's mindset.

    And sadly, I believe the mindset needed to defend ourselves is falling by the wayside. It is being taken away in what we are teaching our kids in school. If bullied, etc., kids are taught to : go tell a teacher, principal, adult, etc. They are 'learning', or what I call being 'conditioned' to never take responsibility for their own defense. I have a 9-year old daughter. She is a typical girlie girl. But she does take Tea Kwon Do. She does well at it. I also tell her, as do her instructors, that IF someone is harming her she has the 'right' to defend herself. She's still in elementary school and 'sees' what happens to kids who get into fights, etc. Getting her mind around the fact that she has a 'right' to self-defense was a chore. When she makes it to middle school, her and I will both be taking Krav Maga here locally. I feel that this is the best I can do at her age. Firearms beyond a .22 rifle will have to wait a while.
    SOLD my guns.
    Proud owner of a 12lb. Chinese pug that is DANGEROUS and is soon to be registered!

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