Bad: Mass Shooting In Wisconsin - Page 9

Bad: Mass Shooting In Wisconsin

This is a discussion on Bad: Mass Shooting In Wisconsin within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by mb1900 Between the pro and the anti people, those who are truly in need are lost. One side wants a sense of ...

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  1. #121
    Member Array JDKinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb1900 View Post
    Between the pro and the anti people, those who are truly in need are lost. One side wants a sense of security TSA-style, and the other side wants its toys. Neither cares about the real problem, which is the failing mental healthcare system in America. And guess what, we as a society will keep paying for it, because periodically one of them goes spectacularly crazy and shoots a whole bunch of people.
    First off, I don't refer to my Second Amendment rights or the instruments of that amendment as "toys" anymore than I'd refer to newspapers or the internet or televisions as "toys" of the First Amendment.

    Secondly, while I agree that mental health issues are a concern, what concerns me even more is who will determine what constitutes "mental illness."

    The left/liberals dominate academia and the mental health fields and it is they who will be deciding what constitutes mental illness, which in turn will further restrict rights.

    I'm a veteran who's seen the elephant and according to a garden variety of mental health experts assigned to the VA, such white males like me are a ticking time bomb. Our own so-called "mental health experts" have labeled veterans as a threat to the United States. Etc etc.

    Typical liberal academia assessment and opinion, but one that could deny millions of veterans a portion of their Constitutional rights--same rights they put on a uniform and swore to defend.

    Obviously this numbnuts who shot up the theater in Aurora has some mental health issues, but where is the left and the head-docs in coming out and vigorously defending him? Same with Jason Loughner (Tucson)? These mental health experts continue to blame objects rather than the users of those objects and their solution is to remove ALL objects that could cause harm to head-cases from society.

    It's that old line of "If it saves just one life. . ."

    It's a slippery slope in deciding how/what to do with mentally ill people, but I am far more in favor of Americans taking the necessary steps and preparations to defend themselves swiftly and surely against these nutjobs rather than allow the left/libs to determine in which direction THAT playing field will be tilted.

    JD
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  2. #122
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    I don't recall anyone talking about subsets when it was Islamic Fundamentalists or doing the same when it is illegal immigrants of Hispanic descent.

    What does a criminal act like? How do you profile someone as a criminal if they are not committing crimes? I think it might be best if we start looking into white males and Christians in order to prevent more mass shootings. This Sikh Temple shooting made me realize I might have been wrong. Perhaps NY Representative Peter King can get some bills introduced to start looking into this as he did in regards to Muslims and airlines? I still need to debate but so far the idea of profiling folks is starting to make sense in light of recent events. Not to mention the averted Ohio shooting.
    Ask yourself this, do you know anyone who is Muslim or hispanic that does not fit the stereotypical mold given by the media to those two groups?
    I know I do. The fact is, most of the devout Muslims in my community are no different than the devout christians.

    There are many people of hispanic descent that are contributing members of society.

    Oh, and all illegal immigrants are criminals. They came here illegally. Their actions while within our borders are irrelevant. They are criminals. They don't deserve to be here. Their allowed presence by the current President is an insult to all of the people who immigrated here legally. Like my Mother's side of the family who came here from what was Czechoslavakia at the time.

    I don't care for any illegal immigrants. Race, nationality and religions, it all matters not. They are here violating the laws of this land. To call all illegal immigrants hispanic seems a bit racist to me. They are far from the only ethnic group that comes here illegally.

    Criminals act in similar ways in similar places. There is no one size fits all answer for them. You're from Chicago, do you act like the most common criminal element there? Do you act like a gang member?
    I don't fit in with the most common criminal group around here. I don't act, or look like, white trash.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop
    How do you profile someone as a criminal if they are not committing crimes?
    Quote Originally Posted by SFury
    Profiling will never work to stop these events. They are single acts of individuals. One and done events that the people who know the offenders are the only ones who can stop them.
    You already had the answer. You just failed to acknowledge it.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    I love my home town. Just not like it once was. Well it is, Chicago has always been a Gangland. I attribute these shootings to the understaffing of the police department in the city. The gangsters and people have just gotten brash about their crimes and violence is a big problem here.
    Getting a bit off-topic, for which I apologize, but do you see no correlation with legally-armed citizens being non-existant on the streets of the Windy and the level of violence perpetrated by its criminal element?
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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    So profiling works with ethnic groups but when it comes to white folks, it is only subsets? I don't understand how that is the case? So far we know white guys are shooting up the place nad committing mass shootings at a higher rate than other "ethnic groups" which makes me think they should be targeted for more scrutiny.
    Profiling is no more than a specific type of situational awareness. If the white guy has a shaved head and SS runes tattooed on his neck or tears tattooed below his eye, he has my full suspicious attention. If three guys of any persuasion start to fan as they approach me, I'm reaching and checking my six. Your argument on who is committing the higher rate of mass shootings is weak at best. If voicing such an opinion makes me a racist in the eyes of people I do not know and to whom I owe nothing, I'm OK with it.
    Last edited by pgrass101; August 9th, 2012 at 06:58 PM. Reason: Edited broad brush statement
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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  5. #125
    Ex Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Getting a bit off-topic, for which I apologize, but do you see no correlation with legally-armed citizens being non-existant on the streets of the Windy and the level of violence perpetrated by its criminal element?
    Corrext. The police department is short by an estimated 2000 thousand members. And no I don't see a correlation as Europe has a much lower crime rate with virtually no CCW. I believe I'm CCW but don't feel it is the cause for lowering or raising crimes to a degree that a lack of police is.

  6. #126
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    Corrext. The police department is short by an estimated 2000 thousand members. And no I don't see a correlation as Europe has a much lower crime rate with virtually no CCW. I believe I'm CCW but don't feel it is the cause for lowering or raising crimes to a degree that a lack of police is.
    I'm not sure this is accurate. You might want to do some more research on that. They may have smaller total number of gun violence in some countries, but that does not tell the whole story. Context in the data is vital.

    While more police might help the problem, it will never solve the problem. That would require a change in society and culture. Hollywood and the music industry need to stop glorifying the violence and hatered, and telling the kids that being a G is the only way to get ahead.
    Walk softly ...

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    Corrext. The police department is short by an estimated 2000 thousand members.
    Are you sure this is accurate? I don't know how many cops they have right now, but adding 2 million to the ranks seems like overkill under any circumstance. Are they supposed to assign a cop to every non-cop citizen/family as a body guard?
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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    Are you sure this is accurate? I don't know how many cops they have right now, but adding 2 million to the ranks seems like overkill under any circumstance. Are they supposed to assign a cop to every non-cop citizen/family as a body guard?
    I was going to let that part slide, but I did chuckle when I read it.
    Walk softly ...

  9. #129
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    The best indicator is the percentages of the prison population compared to the total percentage of the population.

    What you see is the statistical breakdown by ethnic group. You will see that almost all ethnic groups are more prone to violence than the white subset.

    What you fail to see is in the generalisation is the breakdown of where the majority of criminals and crimes occur. Take out ethnicity, and look at population demographics and population rates and the story changes dramatically. Larger population concentrations equal more violence. It's an across the board linear relationship. It's also typically the poorest residents of these large cities that cause almost all of the crimes.

    It just so happens that most of the poorer neighborhoods tend to be non-white populations in the larger cities. Which brings up other questions as to why this tends to be the case.

    Many gun restrictions, or no gun restrictions. The population to crime ratio pattern remains virtually the same across the US. Something no gun hater wants to admit, and a fact that many gun owners don't want to admit either. An interesting truth indeed.

    None of which is relevant to mass shooters.

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