Off-Duty Cop Hits 4-Year-Old Girl With Motorcycle then shoots dad

This is a discussion on Off-Duty Cop Hits 4-Year-Old Girl With Motorcycle then shoots dad within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I like how the commenters are dragging Obama into it....

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Thread: Off-Duty Cop Hits 4-Year-Old Girl With Motorcycle then shoots dad

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Cokeman's Avatar
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    I like how the commenters are dragging Obama into it.
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  3. #32
    Member Array Ransom's Avatar
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    The way to avoid a collision on a motorcycle is to brake hard and possibly swerve, not lay it down. That was a big mistake the LEO made. But the dad and the other man made the bigger mistake and it cost the dad his life. My sympathies to all involved. I hope the race hustlers stay out of this one.

  4. #33
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    Well, first of all the officer already had a broken leg and a broken shoulder from the initial crash.

    So he really could not fend off any aggressive attack with anything other than a firearm.

    Then dear old Dad is actually preventing First Aid from being administered to the little girl by beating up on the officer that is attempting to help her.

    No matter if he was initially at fault or not.

    The officer had a responsibility and duty to perform in attempting to help the injured little kid and was being stopped from doing that by getting physically pounded.

    What if Dad had knocked the officer unconscious and the little girl then died or went into a coma?

    A tragic story all the way around.

    The Brits had it right this time. STAY CALM AND CARRY ON.

    Priority One was and should have been to get the little child stabilized until Paramedics arrived.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    laying your bike down to where you have no control of it, versus hard braking and steering away ... ??? really ... laying it down was idiotic. I understand the father's anger, and his passion at that moment to put some retribution on the guy he saw riding the motorcycle. Obviously from the report, the officer was not in uniform .... and "says" ... he identified himself, and even if he did... I can see Dad not caring. Daughter was supervised crossing the street, the 18 yr old.

    I don't know how bad the beating was, to say if he was justified in shooting the father or not.......
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransom View Post
    The way to avoid a collision on a motorcycle is to brake hard and possibly swerve, not lay it down. That was a big mistake the LEO made. But the dad and the other man made the bigger mistake and it cost the dad his life. My sympathies to all involved. I hope the race hustlers stay out of this one.
    Sad situation all the way around. IMHO, the biggest contributory factor was is the officer's inability to control his vehicle. Rubber and brakes stop a bike a LOT faster than steel and chrome (or plastic if it was a rice rocket). Had he hit the brakes - hard, hit the horn and possibly then steered around the pedestrians, everybody lives. If the article is accurate, and that is a big if, the cop should lose his MC license for surely he inappropriately used a deadly weapon. That the bike high-sided after being laid down is entirely predictable. Where it bounces and what it hits when it high-sides is not. He clearly has not had any decent MC training in the last 30 or so years. Laying it down has not been taught as an appropriate technique by any qualified trainers in decades. It never really did work.

    None of the above justifies the father's response. It does sound like the situation devolved to one where the shoot was justified, except it was in IL. If regular citizens cannot carry there, IMHO, off duty cops should not be allowed to either - unequal protection under the law.

    At the root, however, the cause for this incident rests with the motorist and his inability to control his vehicle. Had he controlled it and still hit the kid after trying to avoid, the responsibility would shift to the illegal pedestrians, but he did not control his vehicle or even really try to.
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  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    The guy should have been supervising his daughter, which would have prevented the whole thing. But at the same time, you guys seem a little harsh. His kid got hit with a motorcycle. He got pissed off. It doesn't seem that outlandish. What if the cop was speeding? If he was going 15 mph over, then this whole argument changes, and I say he deserved a beating.
    . Your comment started off reasonable enough, but your last statement IMO is a load of bunk. Idiots delivering street justice on a whim is never a good thing and should never acceptable. Unless you were there to see the entire event unfold and evaluate all the variables involved, how can you even say the officer deserved anything. Seems to me that it all started as a terrible accident that was escalated into a deadly situation by a hotheaded individual that felt he had the right to be judge, jury and executioner.Like you said at the start. The dad should have been more aware of where his daughter was at all times and IMO that is spot on. IMO, the whole horrible situation is a direct result of his lack of parental guidance and due to the fathers rage, it's his fault he got shot.
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  7. #36
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    The guy made a huge mistake, was it worth his life?

    Hard to say what emotions one could control if you just saw your young child hit with a motorcycle, right or wrong I don't think as many here would be as level headed not being behind a computer screen having time to think about the situation and 0 emotion involved.

    If this was not an LEO would it be treated as a justified kill?

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by blitzburgh View Post
    Absolutely horrible story. My question is, who starts beating the crap out of a guy before rendering aide to their own kid?!
    Man got to have priorities,,,,, daughter should have come 1st,,,,,, Now she is fatherless,,,,
    Just REAL BAD position for the officer.

  9. #38
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    The officer had a broken leg and shoulder, among other injuries from the wreck. I think it sounds like a justified shooting.

    This should be a lesson to all of us in self-control. The lack of it cost the father his life. I'm sure many of us would feel like beating the person who just hit our daughter, whether or not she was in the wrong, but actually doing it can bring dire consequences.
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  10. #39
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    There is an underlying current of "them" against "us" with some folks. Obviously this "father" saw it that way and reacted in the way that people deal with the us vesrsus them situation.

    The real down side is that attitude and action cost him his life and now daughter lives on with no father.

    Being angry and upset with an accident involving your kids is one thing. Being raging stupid about it can be deadly.

    My prayers for the Cop having to make that "decision" that no doubt will haunt him for a long time, and for the little girl who now has no dad.
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  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    I don't think as many here would be as level headed not being behind a computer screen having time to think about the situation and 0 emotion involved.
    . I would disagree there. I'd say there's a distinct difference between sorrow and rage. I know for a fact that I for one would have been at my loved ones side instantly and would not given the other guy a second thought. If I would have witnessed a reckless act by the driver that caused the situation I would surly be very angry with the guy, but so much so to initiate a physical attack against him, I seriously doubt it. I would give the vast majority of concealed carry folks the same consideration, otherwise it seems that we may as well think of ourselves as just armed thugs on the side of what each of us would consider to be right and wrong.
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  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
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    Well, she was/is alive and well - and the kid may have appeared fine (couple scrapes is what I read)... but all I'm saying is like any scenario, it's easy to sit here and say I would have done this or I would have done that.

    Am I saying I would have done what this guy did? No.
    Do I think it was a life altering situation? I don't know.
    Would a civilian get away with the same? Maybe?
    Did the guy know the officer had a broken leg, etc? One person knows, and he's dead.
    Would knowing or not knowing have changed anything? ???

    I'm just trying to pose a different light, because we all know how boring a forum would be if we all agreed all the time. :)

  13. #42
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    There are two ways to ride a motorcycle and that’s on the wheels and on the ground. I like to think he laid the bike down to stop from hitting the girl but anyone that rides knows that’s not true. He went into a panic stop and dumped it when the girl ran out in front of him.

    in my option he was justified in shooting, you just dumped the bike and all of a sudden two guy come out of nowhere and start pounding on you after a couple of words; words they didn't want to hear. He has no choice because they were not being reasonable and just dumping I am sure he was in pain already

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
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    I agree, being a rider I questioned laying the bike down as well, you have 0 control when you do that for one thing, and I seriously doubt it was a conscious decision to do so.

  15. #44
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    For those saying that he was negligent in laying the bike down, I think that is a little too judgmental. I've been riding for well over 30 years, and there are always unknowns. Heck, I almost laid my Night Train down in Gatlinburg this past summer when I cautiously applied the breaks after a brief rain on a hot day. The only time I have laid a bike down was once in 1982 when crossing an icy bridge. I was not negligent then either. Bad things happens sometimes, regardless of the skill level, and I can't guarantee that someday my bike won't be laying on it's side again someday. I find it hard to believe that there are riders out there who are so competent that they can provide assurance that they will brake properly under all conditions.

    In regards to sympathy to the father's violent reaction; I think it boils down to the core of who you really are as an individual. Just like there are those will run toward gunfire while others run away, I do believe that there are those who's core instinct is to exact vengeance over rescuing their own child. Who you really are comes out when you have to act before there is time to think.
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  16. #45
    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
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    As far as your comment on biker negligence, I for one never said that - but to try and make it sound intentional is what I don't necessarily believe.

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