This is a discussion on Don't Mess with My Car.... within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Things are a bit different in Texas and this law dates wayyy back. In Texas you may use deadly force to protect your property (even ...
Things are a bit different in Texas and this law dates wayyy back.
In Texas you may use deadly force to protect your property (even others property), and to keep the thieves, vandals from escaping.
Im sure someone will post the exact code and terminology :)
Last edited by Dihappy; October 15th, 2006 at 11:43 AM.
When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
From the essay "TRIBES" by Bill Whittle
Shooting at fleeing individuals is a bad decision....
"Ray Nagin is a colossal disappointment" - NRA/ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox.
"...be water, my friend."
That depends on what they are fleeing with and where they might be fleeing to, assuming you know they are actually fleeing and not simply regrouping for another attack.Shooting at fleeing individuals is a bad decision....
Good thread and welcome to the forum txshooter. (From Central Texas)
"Dont be afraid to go after what you want to do, and what you want to be. But don't be afraid to be willing to pay the price." - Lane Frost
I wish that we had such a law in Florida, too.
But as things go, we seem to have one of the best CCW laws around, and now we have the stand-your-ground law, too. All in all, not a bad deal for those with the will to protect themselves.
Hello all, this is my first post... I live at 26** Fourth in Groves TX, and my next door neighbor (right side of my house) is the one that shot at the thief.
I woke up at about 2:38am (Friday morning) to multiple gun shots (about 5). I told my wife that what I heard, and she thought I was just kidding until she saw me quickly putting my clothes on and grabbing my handgun (CZ P-01). As we made our way to the front door we heard two more gun shots. I looked out the window on my door and all I could see was my neighbor's wife outside in her driveway by herself looking scared. I told my wife to lock the door when I went outside, and she did so. The neighbor's wife said someone had broken into their car (there was a big hole smashed into the driver's side window), and the speakers/cd-changer they ripped out were lying in the ditch in my front yard. At this point I noticed my neighbor (the husband) sitting in his SUV at the end of his driveway. I went to the front of yard to grab their property.. as soon I started walking the husband starting to drive down the block, when he got to the first street from my house (about 20 yards from me), he turned the corner and stopped parallel to another car (his driver-side window facing the other car's driver-side window) and unloaded an entire clip into the car (15 rounds). He (my neighbor) then went around the block and ended up back at his house. He was extrememly upset at the fact that this had happened. The police started to turn onto our street (about 5-6 cars consisting of both Groves & Port Arthur police). As soon as this happened, me & my neighbor put our guns back in our houses to avoid any unneccesary trouble. The police came out with their guns drawn (obviously), and had me, my neighbor, and his wife lay face down while they handcuffed us (I was in my yard at this point, and my neighbors were in there driveway). The police assured us that we were not being arrested, but they needed to figure out what was going on. After I told a couple officers what happened they took the handcuffs off of me. I went inside my house to tell my wife what happened. They kept my neighbor handcuffed, but uncuffed his wife. They asked me to go to the Groves police station to give a statement, and so I did. When I got to the station, the theif's car was already there hooked up to a tow truck. The car looked crazy with all the bullet holes in it. I went inside and the theif was there handcuffed to a bar in a room. He had some blood on his shirt, but didn't look to bad. I gave my statement and when I was done I saw them bring my neighbor into an adhjacent room to ID the theif. I got home at about 5:45am, and my neighbor got home at about 6:15.
I was suprised that my neighbor did not get into any trouble. Its understandable that he would shoot at him when they were at his house breaking into his car, but he then drove after them, aligned his vehicle with his and unloaded an entire clip. While I do sympathize with my neighbor, it just didn't seem likely that the police would let him off that easy, but they did so good for him. What a crazy night!
Thanks for the eye witness account solure. It is seldom a thread gets such a perspective or other viewpoint. Welcome to the forum! Do you shoot at GTGC?
Not yet, I have been planning on going out there soon though. I need to get some regular practice started.
Solure, that's a wicked story!
Please don't take this as any affront, but I have to wonder what the wisdom of going outside was. A number of things strike me as wrong in this scenario, and could have led to disaster:
- No mention that you or your wife called 911
- You went outside into a severe unknown, and presumably left the wife inside unarmed
- No idea if the cops were on their way, and thus likely to see you holding a gun and consider you a threat (to be put down, of course)
- No idea where the bad guys were, or even if your neighbor was the bad guy at this point (coulda been a domestic thing?)
- Started picking up property?! Who cares about the stereo? Besides, leaving it lying where it was would preserve it as evidence for the cops if they were to need it
- Where was your attention while you started picking up stereo parts? Certainly not on who might be lurking around, ARMED
I can't figure out why the cops did not charge your neighbor with attempted murder. I sympathise with how angry he would be at the scum who victimized his family, but still, going after them down the street to empty a magazine into their car?! How on earth did he not end up killing someone? And just because he didn't kill anyone does not make this not a crime...
I gotta shake my head over this one...
Okay, since it keeps coming up here is the Texas Penal Code on deadly force and protection one's property:
Subch. D. PROTECTION OF PROPERTY
PC §9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate
the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately
necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor.
PC §9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible,movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
If this were to happen in other states, the victim here may well be charged with attempted murder or some other crime, but here in Texas what he did was legal. Maybe not prudent, but legal.
Yes I did call 911 before going outside.
Yes my wife was armed inside our house.
I know my neighbors fairly well, and unlike some I could not stand to just stay inside while she (neighbor's wife) was out there by herself.
When I went to fetch my neigbors property in my yard, I was very aware of anyone being around, however it still may have been too impulsive.
Attempted murder? After the fact, I found out that the police found shell casings from a different caliber gun than my neighbor was using, and apparently those belonged to the perp.
Anyways, I am not the kind of person to randomly walk into deadly situation for the fun/curiosity of it while leaving my wife alone. This situation was not that type of case.
Okay, then, I have to take you at your word.
Please understand, though, that from the way your post was written, none of what you explained had been entered in the record.
You hadn't mentioned calling 911.
You hadn't mentioned that your wife was armed, herself.
You hadn't mentioned that the area was "clear."
You hadn't mentioned that there appeared to have been a shootout, not a shooting, at the scene where your neighbor emptied a magazine into a car...
It doesn't seem ordinary that a person would hop into his vehicle and drive over to the vehicle occupied by those who had just burglarized his other vehicle, pull up alongside it and... what? Parlay with the bad guys? It sounded, from your description, that your neighbor went out to try and take the law into his own hands. I do not fault him for having that desire. Unfortunately, such desires, when turned into action, often are illegal, particularly if the person goes out with a gun, and ends up drawing or firing it.
In the end, I still think that since he was victimized, your neighbor is the good guy, and the idiots who tried to rip him off (and damaged his property) are the bad guys and deserved to be taken out. (I'm one of the hard-liners who feel that property is worth life, since we spend our lives to obtain it for ourselves and we can't get that time back if we have to RE-obtain something we already worked to get. That, and we owe it to society to weed out the pernicious elements among us when they make it justifiable. We should not have to live with predators among us, taking from us with impunity.)
Your absolutely correct. I was very sparce in my original description of the scene, just got the basic facts out (not the circumstances why I went out). Well all in all, I would not necessarily recommend driving after the bad guys either in most situations.