bad, ugly- was it a firing squad or justified?

This is a discussion on bad, ugly- was it a firing squad or justified? within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by linuss Re-read my post. I never said he should have known the effective range, however it's not beyond reasoning for him to ...

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 79
Like Tree30Likes

Thread: bad, ugly- was it a firing squad or justified?

  1. #46
    JD
    JD is offline
    Administrator
    Array JD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    19,233
    Quote Originally Posted by linuss View Post
    Re-read my post. I never said he should have known the effective range, however it's not beyond reasoning for him to know about the Tueller drill, and the ~20 foot range.


    Someone pulls a knife on me and the first thing I go for isn't a less-than-lethal option... Force with force.

    I agree if a group of civilians had been in the same situation with the same amount of rounds fired, there'd be issues, but your seemingly biggest initial point was "Why didn't they choose an LTL route" and not "Why did they shoot so much?"
    Right, that's understood, but why should he know what the range of a taser is to make the conclusion as to why a taser was NOT used.

    Agreed on meeting force with like force.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #47
    Member Array linuss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW
    Posts
    302
    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    Right, that's understood, but why should he know what the range of a taser is to make the conclusion as to why a taser was NOT used.
    Call it a symptom of my chosen profession, but I tend to not Monday-morning quarterback someone with different options they could/should have done without myself understanding the use of those options. :)

  4. #48
    Member Array 8th ID's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    488
    Seems excessive to me, but a lethal threat to LEO I believe requires lethal action (not taser). But I do question the decision not to use the dog. As has been said, the dog is to be used in instances like this to subdue, etc. a threat so the Officer won't have to. I'm also troubled by the fact that none of the dash cams were working. Really?

    Bottom line: I'm not LE, and I don't play one on TV. Seems like a tough job. The media is gonna ride this thing until the legs fall off!
    SOLD my guns.
    Proud owner of a 12lb. Chinese pug that is DANGEROUS and is soon to be registered!

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    3,555
    He was way too close to the officers off to the left when they started shooting, so I think they were justified there. At least half of the shots were after the man was down on the ground, but then again, the old guy in the internet cafe was still shooting when the guys were on the ground and he wasn't charged either. Of course, even after the first half of the volley the fat lady had sung for this guy so it's kinda a moot point. Just b/c he had a knife visible, doesn't mean he didn't also have a gun.

    However, I think their major failing was putting off "letting the dogs out".

  6. #50
    Member Array tricolordad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Richmond, Wisconsin
    Posts
    490
    I've heard that in situations like that, people tend to pull the trigger over and over until the magazine is empty. Maybe all the cops did just that at the same exact time. It would be strange, but stranger things have happened. IMO, that was a bit excessive but I wasn't there so I don't know all the facts or if the video has been doctored. The media does a pretty good job of making it look how they want it to look.

  7. #51
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lansing Mi
    Posts
    7,080
    How many shots are enough to stop the threat? We are taught, and teach to shoot them to the ground, effectively stopping the threat. It would appear to me, that each INDIVIDUAL officer did just that. Ive said it once, and Ill say it again, If you are going to challenge the police with deadly force, you are not going to like the ending.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TX/NH
    Posts
    5,837
    Not defending or accusing either side of anything. But...I guess this question is for the LEO's out there. Supposedly this guy has had run ins with LE before and "they knew him" whatever that means. If the officers or dispatch did know that this guy was mentally ill (and we do not know what his illness is) would the LEO's react differently?

  9. #53
    JD
    JD is offline
    Administrator
    Array JD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    19,233
    Quote Originally Posted by linuss View Post
    Call it a symptom of my chosen profession, but I tend to not Monday-morning quarterback someone with different options they could/should have done without myself understanding the use of those options. :)

    That's all well and good, but maybe, just maybe it would be better to lead off with something a little less....stiff for your first post and throw the guy a slow pitch instead of a fast ball aimed at his nuts.

  10. #54
    Distinguished Member Array Ghettokracker71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Under a rock.
    Posts
    1,763
    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    If your family open fired on someone crawling in through your bedroom window and put 46 rounds into them do you honestly believe it would not be questioned. Not saying I wouldn't be fine with the shoot, just that it would be questioned.
    My problem would be if the same police supervisor who says this is a good shoot was the one to say you as a homeowner acted excessively.

    Michael
    Anytime a civilian has to use a firearm in self-defense they are at risk for llaw-suits and legal action against them. (Obviously pending on the particular state laws.) LEOs can do things citizens can't. These were LEO's in the video, not citizens. I'm not advocating shooting someone THAT many times as I feel its beyond excessive, I am also NOT a law enforcement expert and do NOT claim to be one. They felt the man with a knife was a threat, they asked him many times to drop it and he refused and even taunted them by saying to go ahead and let out the dog. With a large knife he could easily have killed or seriously injured the police animal(s).

    A perfect example of LEO's not having the same consequences for their actions is an incident out in California where an off-duty LEO who left his duty weapon loaded (1 in the chamber!) in the backseat and his toddler(3yo) that wasn't properly strapped in to a car-seat found it, and shot him in the spine which paralyzed him while he was driving and now he is suing Glock stating if it had a grip safety he wouldn't have been injured. The courts ACTUALLY are allowing this to proceed forward. Whatever happen to,...oh, I don't know? Being a FREAKING PARENT AND KEEPING THE GUN AWAY FROM YOUR KID? If it was an "average joe" that happened to? Child negligence charges, child endangerment, CPS possibly removing the child from the parents,,.....et. al. (I read about it here on DC).


    "To blame a gun for a mans decision is to foolishly attribute free will to an inanimate object"- Colion Noir.

  11. #55
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    2,220
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghettokracker71 View Post
    Anytime a civilian has to use a firearm in self-defense they are at risk for llaw-suits and legal action against them. (Obviously pending on the particular state laws.) LEOs can do things citizens can't. These were LEO's in the video, not citizens. I'm not advocating shooting someone THAT many times as I feel its beyond excessive, I am also NOT a law enforcement expert and do NOT claim to be one. They felt the man with a knife was a threat, they asked him many times to drop it and he refused and even taunted them by saying to go ahead and let out the dog. With a large knife he could easily have killed or seriously injured the police animal(s).

    A perfect example of LEO's not having the same consequences for their actions is an incident out in California where an off-duty LEO who left his duty weapon loaded (1 in the chamber!) in the backseat and his toddler(3yo) that wasn't properly strapped in to a car-seat found it, and shot him in the spine which paralyzed him while he was driving and now he is suing Glock stating if it had a grip safety he wouldn't have been injured. The courts ACTUALLY are allowing this to proceed forward. Whatever happen to,...oh, I don't know? Being a FREAKING PARENT AND KEEPING THE GUN AWAY FROM YOUR KID? If it was an "average joe" that happened to? Child negligence charges, child endangerment, CPS possibly removing the child from the parents,,.....et. al. (I read about it here on DC).
    If it was an "average joe" that happened to? Child negligence charges, child endangerment, CPS possibly removing the child from the parents,,..... Just out of curiosity, do you know for a fact that none of that has taken place? As far as the officer's lawsuit, pretty much anybody can sue anybody for just about anything. Felons sitting in prison with nothing better to do file lawsuits everyday.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  12. #56
    Distinguished Member Array Ghettokracker71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Under a rock.
    Posts
    1,763
    Quote Originally Posted by Gene83 View Post
    If it was an "average joe" that happened to? Child negligence charges, child endangerment, CPS possibly removing the child from the parents,,..... Just out of curiosity, do you know for a fact that none of that has taken place? As far as the officer's lawsuit, pretty much anybody can sue anybody for just about anything. Felons sitting in prison with nothing better to do file lawsuits everyday.
    After researching several articles there is nary a single mention of charges against the LEO or CPS. Obviously anything read in the media must be taken with a BIG grain of salt. (I'm not denying its possible he was charged. I have found no mention of it anywhere is all.)

    We all know what would happen in the event of a civilian in that situation. Media all over it, if the parent(s) WEREN'T known to be charged there'd be local outcry and possibly outcry from the brady's,...etc...

    The lawsuit actually was approved by a judge, initially the courts denied the case to procede,he repealed it and the courts allowed it...

    I like your signature, BTW. Probable best we get back on topic though,...


    "To blame a gun for a mans decision is to foolishly attribute free will to an inanimate object"- Colion Noir.

  13. #57
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    2,220
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghettokracker71 View Post
    After researching several articles there is nary a single mention of charges against the LEO or CPS. Obviously anything read in the media must be taken with a BIG grain of salt. (I'm not denying its possible he was charged. I have found no mention of it anywhere is all.)

    We all know what would happen in the event of a civilian in that situation. Media all over it, if the parent(s) WEREN'T known to be charged there'd be local outcry and possibly outcry from the brady's,...etc...

    The lawsuit actually was approved by a judge, initially the courts denied the case to procede,he repealed it and the courts allowed it...

    I like your signature, BTW. Probable best we get back on topic though,...
    I understand and I'm not saying that members of law enforcement don't know how to game the system, so to speak. I've personally watched some of them do some pretty questionable stuff. Still, I know far more who are fine individuals and I'm glad they are willing to do what they do.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  14. #58
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    887
    This reminds me of the time a carjacker was shot after a high speed chase. When they asked the Sheriff why the man was shot 200+ times, his response was, "Because we ran out of ammo." Justified is justified, no matter the round count. The guy had a knife, they shot him. Bottom line, it's going to be ruled a good shoot.

  15. #59
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    ky.
    Posts
    1,890
    I generally give every benefit of the doubt to law enforcement and I understand how this statement will "stir the pot".

    That man was murdered.

  16. #60
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,957
    Does anyone even know if the officers there had a Taser to use? Those things retail at over $800 apiece. The economy being what it is up there I would not be surprised at all if they did not have them.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

powered by article dashboard air rifle reviews

,
powered by article dashboard baseball uniforms
,
powered by article dashboard concealed weapon permit in va.
,

powered by article dashboard concealed weapons carry

,
powered by article dashboard concealed weapons license
,

powered by article dashboard fat people

,
powered by article dashboard florida gun permit
,
powered by article dashboard how to apply for a concealed weapons permit
,

powered by article dashboard lethal weapon 5

,
powered by article dashboard little people
,
powered by article dashboard peace officer
,
powered by article dashboard penal code
,

powered by article dashboard ugliest cars

,

powered by article dashboard wine country

,
powered by article dashboard wrestling news
Click on a term to search for related topics.