bad, ugly- was it a firing squad or justified?

This is a discussion on bad, ugly- was it a firing squad or justified? within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by 21bubba I generally give every benefit of the doubt to law enforcement and I understand how this statement will "stir the pot". ...

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Thread: bad, ugly- was it a firing squad or justified?

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    I generally give every benefit of the doubt to law enforcement and I understand how this statement will "stir the pot".

    That man was murdered.
    the crime of killing a person especially with malice aforethought


    I'm not seeing how it fits the definition. The police didn't go out looking for him with the intent to kill him.
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  3. #62
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    There are a lot of depts. that still dont have Tasers, not that it would have mattered in this situation. You dont use on Taser on a knife. Period.

    A lot of depts. still dont have cameras in the cars. As for the less than lethal stuff, my dept doesnt even have any.

    Its naieve to assume that all police,everywhere in the country are well equipped. With budgets being the way they are, the police and fire services are usually the first to get cut on the budget.
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  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghettokracker71 View Post
    If the first shot is fatal, other than wasting ammo what does it matter about the other 45 shots fired?
    Gee I don't know, maybe because I don't want to live in a world where our police force resembles a Judge Dredd movie??

    Or maybe because given the poor hit percentage of shots fired by law enforcement that alot of those 46 rounds could have hit bystanders??

  5. #64
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    Reporter: officer can you tell me who shot first?
    officer: I don't know but I wasn't going to be the only one that didn't shoot

    Officer: hey sergeant; hold on I didn't finish my mag out....bam, bam ,bam... OK I'm done

  6. #65
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    There are a lot of depts. that still dont have Tasers, not that it would have mattered in this situation. You dont use on Taser on a knife. Period.

    A lot of depts. still dont have cameras in the cars. As for the less than lethal stuff, my dept doesnt even have any.

    Its naieve to assume that all police,everywhere in the country are well equipped. With budgets being the way they are, the police and fire services are usually the first to get cut on the budget.
    And a Taser cartridge to reload it costs how much?
    What is going on with property taxes and income tax revenue there?

    Hmmmmmmmm............
    You can get a S&W 9mm for under $400, Hornady TAP is what $0.75 per round if you buy a single box? A can of OC is $12.

    You can stick beat someone for free.

    If you have to cut spending a "high dollar toy" like a Taser is one of the first things to go. Video systems cost money too.
    Sometimes you can put gas in the cruiser or fix the camera. About twenty years ago MPD officers in D.C. (yes our nation's capital!) had to buy gas and tires for their cruisers out of their own pockets or be on foot patrol. The city didn't the money to pay for it.
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  7. #66
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    About 40 bucks. Tasers are around 1200, but the training is where the money is spent. Anyone care to guess what the first thing to go in a budget crunch is? Training would be a good guess.

    What is going on with property taxes and income tax revenue there?
    Proabably the same thing that always happens. Elected city officials dont see the need for it, or maybe dont care because some cop had the audacity to pull of their kids over for doing 115 MPH in a 25 zone so now they could care less about funding the Police.

    Its the same old crap where every you go.

    It wasnt too long ago around here that a lot of depts. required you to buy your own gun because the city councils thought they were too expensive to spend city funding on.
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  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Its naieve to assume that all police,everywhere in the country are well equipped. With budgets being the way they are, the police and fire services are usually the first to get cut on the budget.
    Actually, quite the opposite is true. Fire and Police are usually the last to get cut, if they even get cut at all. I know because I work in city government. Public Works, sanitation dept., water dept., parks, recreational facilities, etc., all get cut before police & fire are looked at.

  9. #68
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    Actually, quite the opposite is true. Fire and Police are usually the last to get cut, if they even get cut at all. I know because I work in city government. Public Works, sanitation dept., water dept., parks, recreational facilities, etc., all get cut before police & fire are looked at.
    And you know this because you have contacts in every city and town in America right? So you assume that its the same everywhere? Remember, you are on the internet here where people from all 50 states are represented.

    We dont even have a sanitation dept. or recreational facilitys. It wasnt very long ago that we had a porta potty placed in the 2.5 acre park that the city owns...that runs itself.
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  10. #69
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    Hard to second-guess based on one newsie report, but the combination of factors doesn't seem to weigh in the man's favor: history of "assaultive" behavior and contacts with police; a known person; "run-in" with a clerk, immediately preceding incident; holding a knife; refusing to drop it and speak with officers. At some point, that combination's a fairly effective method for resulting in certain responses.

    Strange, that a non-lethal method wasn't tried between the speaking and shooting, though it's not specified whether he had been witnessed as aggressively coming at officers to prompt defensive fire.

    Strange that not a single LEO vehicle camera was operating, at a scene with multiple LEO's responding.
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    I would agree with both of you. From my experience in small towns LE and Fire do not get cut as much as other agencies. Tthey seem to get more officers than they need IMO and those of the folks in the towns I lived in or near and they get their new cars and toys. BUT.......that does not increase their ability to do many things like pay to train a competenat SWAT team, their Technical Surveillance skills and equipment are laughbale at best (I have much expericence in that arena). So IMO they do get money more so than other agencies but do not spend it wisley on ammo, training, tech surveillance and other critical tasks.

  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    And you know this because you have contacts in every city and town in America right? So you assume that its the same everywhere? Remember, you are on the internet here where people from all 50 states are represented.
    The same questions could have been asked about your post as well.

    Listen, I didn't mean to offend at all, but facts are facts. Of course its not the same everywhere, but for the most part when cities and local government look to make budget cuts, they usually look at those departments and services that I mentioned before they go after police & fire. Common knowledge quite honestly.

  13. #72
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    One of the big traps a lot of departments fell into back during the Clinton administration was accepting big gifts from Uncle. Problem was the grants were for funding for three years. After that the county or city or whomever was on the hook for all the pay and benefits and equipment for the rest of the officers careers. Unless enough officers retired during that time to offset the new hires things got real ugly for some departments.

    As far as police and fire being exempt or almost exempt from budget cuts, my old department had furloughs, contracts thrown out, and had (as I heard it) about 100 officers quit and take jobs with other departments in the area.

    As far as the tactics used, some of my friends worked K-9 and we talked some. As it was explained to me you would not send the dog when the guy is standing there looking at him. He can just offer his other arm and then knife the dog. IF they were to use the dog on this it would be when he is distracted and the dog would be coming from out of sight, possibly from behind.
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  14. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I would agree with both of you. From my experience in small towns LE and Fire do not get cut as much as other agencies. Tthey seem to get more officers than they need IMO and those of the folks in the towns I lived in or near and they get their new cars and toys. BUT.......that does not increase their ability to do many things like pay to train a competenat SWAT team, their Technical Surveillance skills and equipment are laughbale at best (I have much expericence in that arena). So IMO they do get money more so than other agencies but do not spend it wisley on ammo, training, tech surveillance and other critical tasks.
    Our sheriff's department and city police department were both reduced by a third the first of this year. The city fire department was also reduced by a similar number.
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    If he wasnt dead, there would always be someone here who would be whining that now tax payers have to feed him. However, I'm more inclined to respect the opinion of someone who deals with these dredges on society on a daily basis than the armed crusader network.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  16. #75
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    He had a knife. Not a gun. They knew him and history. Could of shot to immobilize him.

    This was murder and overkill to boot.

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