Several people shot outside Empire State Building

This is a discussion on Several people shot outside Empire State Building within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Here's a novel idea for NYC...... Seeing as handguns are outlawed why don't they do like in the United Kingdom. In the United Kingdom, the ...

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Thread: Several people shot outside Empire State Building

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Here's a novel idea for NYC...... Seeing as handguns are outlawed why don't they do like in the United Kingdom.

    In the United Kingdom, the majority of police officers do not carry firearms, except in special circumstances

    In NYC the special circumstances would allow the SWAT to carry firearms.
    baren likes this.
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  3. #47
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    Array msgt/ret's Avatar
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    Having been to nyc I have an announcement to make, ATTENTION new yorkers, the world DOES NOT rotate around you. Get over yourselves.
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  4. #48
    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    Of course those statistics come from reports generated by NYPD ......... just sayin
    No, they come from the FBI and mirror myriad other sources.

  5. #49
    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogdaddy View Post
    They just don't report less crimes, Such as robbery, home invations where no one hurt & make nubers up to suit them. JM not SHO ; )
    H/D
    I do understand attitudes about the Mayor, but it is possible to accept factual information. It is easily verified through all sorts of sources and is a commonly accepted fact, and lowered crime is about violent crime and includes homicides.
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  6. #50
    Member Array Ionracas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowman View Post
    Here's a novel idea for NYC...... Seeing as handguns are outlawed why don't they do like in the United Kingdom.

    In the United Kingdom, the majority of police officers do not carry firearms, except in special circumstances

    In NYC the special circumstances would allow the SWAT to carry firearms.
    Then Bloomberg is ganna have to find something else to whine about like big sugary drinks and breast feeding. Oh, wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    Having been to nyc I have an announcement to make, ATTENTION new yorkers, the world DOES NOT rotate around you. Get over yourselves.
    Sooooo true. No offense to the decent people of New York and Massachusettes for that matter but a lot of them really do think they are the stuff. After 26 years of living in Connecticut I feel I can say that. Rhode Island has nice people though.
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  7. #51
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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  8. #52
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by detective View Post
    I do understand attitudes about the Mayor, but it is possible to accept factual information. It is easily verified through all sorts of sources and is a commonly accepted fact, and lowered crime is about violent crime and includes homicides.
    It may be proportionately lower, but it's still one of the highest in the country if you go by actual numbers.

    Places like NYC are the reason I live where I live. This was our worst year for violent crime since I've been here, and we've had 2 murders on this side of the state. Both of which were committed by oil workers. I can recall one murder before the oil boom in the 11 years I've lived here.

    I guarantee nothing will happen to those officers, even though they appeared to be more of a danger to the public than the gunman.

  9. #53
    Member Array beararms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Looks like suicide-by-cop. Given his hold on the gun and arm position, I'd expect to see significant recoil of the gun and arm if he were shooting at police.

  10. #54
    Member Array Roon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey2011 View Post
    It may be proportionately lower, but it's still one of the highest in the country if you go by actual numbers.

    Places like NYC are the reason I live where I live. This was our worst year for violent crime since I've been here, and we've had 2 murders on this side of the state. Both of which were committed by oil workers. I can recall one murder before the oil boom in the 11 years I've lived here.

    I guarantee nothing will happen to those officers, even though they appeared to be more of a danger to the public than the gunman.
    Agreed on this point. Did you see the officer in the rear moving and using only 1 hand to shoot. If that isn't a recipe to hurt/kill innocent people I do not know what is.

  11. #55
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    It looks to me like the LEO nearest the BG purposely aimed away and fired the last few rounds into the crowd.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
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  12. #56
    Member Array Glhadiator's Avatar
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    First let me say that I am not defending how these officers handled this shooting. It appears to me that they definitely need more training.

    In regards as to whether or not the officers will be charged in the accidental stray shooting of civilians. I think we have to keep in mind the big difference between us and a LEO. LEOs are authorized use of deadly force to carry out their duties. Which means going on the offensive. As a civilian we can only use our firearm to defend ourselves. If we can avoid the conflict then we must do so.

    If the officers had just stood there and done nothing and allowed more innocents to die everyone would be calling for their heads on a platter.

    Law enforcement and military personnel have strict rules for the use of deadly force. I would venture to guess that there will be an in-house review of this shooting. The officers in question are certainly on administrative paid leave pending review as I write this.

    Again, I think they handled it poorly. But they did so in the course of carrying out their duty as LEOs.

    If I were able to legally carry at this scene and the BG was threating my life I would be justified in shooting him. If, in the course of killing the BG I also shoot a bystander by accident, I don't think I would be charged for it. But you can bet that I had better be spot on with my assessment of self defense.

    However, even though I think I could win a good case of self defense in crimminal court, I think that I would most likely lose in civil court. Not sure about this but maybe someone out there has more legal knowledge than I do and can shed some light on this.

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  13. #57
    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    IMO................more training or back to the Rubber Gun Squad.......sorry.

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Just curious about how folks feel now about collateral damage and if they feel it is justified. Folks all over in different forums are tearing the LEO's a new one right now for doing what folks said should have been done by CC'ers in Aurora. Many that said that if their was collateral damage it is the fault of the BG for starting the shooting. So, it has to be one way or the other. You can not fault the LEO's if you will not fault a CC'er in the same situation.
    As far as the argument that I would expect to hear (well, I train more than a LEO) doesn't matter. Collateral damage is collateral damage. In this case the LEO's were repsonding to what they are paid to do.

  15. #59
    Member Array tricolordad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaDawg View Post
    This reminded me of a part of the Count of Monte Cristo where the Count and his guests are about to witness an execution of two prisoners in Rome, and one of them is pardoned, causing the other to go mad with rage and fury:

    "look, for on my soul it is curious. Here is a man who had resigned himself to his fate, who was going to the scaffold to die - like a coward, it is true, but he was about to die without resistance. Do you know what gave him strength? - do you know what consoled him? It was, that another partook of his punishment - that another partook of his anguish - that another was to die before him. Lead two sheep to the butcher's, two oxen to the slaughterhouse, and make one of them understand that his companion will not die; the sheep will bleat for pleasure, the ox will bellow with joy. But man - man, whom God created in his own image - man, upon whom God has laid his first, his sole commandment, to love his neighbor - man, to whom God has given a voice to express his thoughts - what is his first cry when he hears his fellow-man is saved? A blasphemy."
    Awwww dude im not finished with that book yet SPOILED lol

  16. #60
    Member Array tricolordad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Just curious about how folks feel now about collateral damage and if they feel it is justified. Folks all over in different forums are tearing the LEO's a new one right now for doing what folks said should have been done by CC'ers in Aurora. Many that said that if their was collateral damage it is the fault of the BG for starting the shooting. So, it has to be one way or the other. You can not fault the LEO's if you will not fault a CC'er in the same situation.
    As far as the argument that I would expect to hear (well, I train more than a LEO) doesn't matter. Collateral damage is collateral damage. In this case the LEO's were repsonding to what they are paid to do.
    I think that if a man signs a contract with the Army for 8 years to do a job in at hell called war and he can be held accountable for his strays then a police officer by all means should be more accountable since he is not in that wartime environment. Yeah, mistakes are made but what the one officer did was just reckless. Its a lack of training IMO
    Ionracas likes this.

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