Several people shot outside Empire State Building

This is a discussion on Several people shot outside Empire State Building within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by tricolordad I think that if a man signs a contract with the Army for 8 years to do a job in at ...

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Thread: Several people shot outside Empire State Building

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    I think that if a man signs a contract with the Army for 8 years to do a job in at hell called war and he can be held accountable for his strays then a police officer by all means should be more accountable since he is not in that wartime environment. Yeah, mistakes are made but what the one officer did was just reckless. Its a lack of training IMO
    I agree 100 percent. That was the point i was making.

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  3. #62
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Just curious about how folks feel now about collateral damage and if they feel it is justified. Folks all over in different forums are tearing the LEO's a new one right now for doing what folks said should have been done by CC'ers in Aurora. Many that said that if their was collateral damage it is the fault of the BG for starting the shooting. So, it has to be one way or the other. You can not fault the LEO's if you will not fault a CC'er in the same situation.
    As far as the argument that I would expect to hear (well, I train more than a LEO) doesn't matter. Collateral damage is collateral damage. In this case the LEO's were repsonding to what they are paid to do.
    Sure we can have double standards, this is America!
    The argument can be put forward that these injuries to the bystanders were the result of our over militarized law enforcement agencies. Much like a no knock warrant these jackbooted stormtroopers had to compensate for whatever their inadequacies may be by playing Dirty Harry Callahan on the streets. Since the guy who just murdered a man seconds before was just peacefully walking down the street the officers should have just followed him all the way to where he was going and then called for ESU and negotiators to talk him into surrendering. If he was actively shooting when engaged by the officers it would be different.
    Bloomberg can now say that while walking around the Empire State Building you are eight times more likely to be shot by someone with a high capacity pistol than someone with a single stack.
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  4. #63
    Senior Member Array TonyDTrigger's Avatar
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    The point here is that, this was no mass shooting. Not by the BG at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by W9HDG View Post
    Walters take on NY City
    Walter forgot the sound of the garbage trucks in the middle of the night as well.
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  6. #65
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Just curious about how folks feel now about collateral damage and if they feel it is justified. ... You can not fault the LEO's if you will not fault a CC'er in the same situation.
    As I said in the other thread, I think it would come down to the skill of the shooter and their actions in the shootout. There's no reason for the officer on the right to be shooting one handed at the BG with a backstop of civilians and should be held liable for his missed shots.

  7. #66
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    Don't know as this has been posted or not ...... video of shootout at link.

    Video captures moment when cops take down Empire State Building shooter - NYPOST.com
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  8. #67
    Distinguished Member Array deadguy's Avatar
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    mcp1810 I think you partially nailed it.

    Follow the guy if possible. Granted, he planned SBC from the start or he would have pulled the trigger on the police.
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  9. #68
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadguy View Post
    mcp1810 I think you partially nailed it.

    Follow the guy if possible. Granted, he planned SBC from the start or he would have pulled the trigger on the police.
    Of course the only problem with that is they don't know where he is going to go. If they lose him or if they follow him to a crowded and confined space that results in injuries from the gun play would we be ripping the NYPD a new one for not taking him down right when they saw him?
    I want to see a headline.....
    "Mass shooting by Bloomberg's hired guns"
    I see this as pretty much a no win for the officers involved. Unless of course they managed to take the guy down without injuring any bystanders. If it didn't go down perfectly, no matter what they had done they would be wrong. They would either be too aggressive or too passive to be cops.
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  10. #69
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    2 things I will say about this.

    First, from what I have read, the two cops did what most NYC cops do in a situation where they feel the need to shoot. They did a mag dump. They fired as fast as they could and they aimed very little. NYC cops a notorious for this. Mainly because their firearms training is for crap. Every person shot other than the original mirder victim and the bad guy was hit by police fire. That is a sickening and sad fact.

    Second, has anyone else noticed how, even though the fact that the cops shot many more people inadvertently, though through negligence, than the bad guy did, that the main stream media is still calling this the "Latest mass shooting in America"? This isn't a mass shooting in the sense that a bad guy shoot a bunch of people. This is a single murder. Something that happens in NYC and in other cities all the time. What sets this shooting apart is the fact that the cops managed to shoot and injure 900% more victims than the bad guy did.
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