New Video: Empire State Bldg: WHY There Were Multiple Shots:

New Video: Empire State Bldg: WHY There Were Multiple Shots:

This is a discussion on New Video: Empire State Bldg: WHY There Were Multiple Shots: within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I wondered too about number of shots from 2 police, but I saw this and it's petty clear to me at least that the first ...

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Thread: New Video: Empire State Bldg: WHY There Were Multiple Shots:

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    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
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    New Video: Empire State Bldg: WHY There Were Multiple Shots:

    I wondered too about number of shots from 2 police, but I saw this and it's petty clear to me at least that the first officer shot multiple times because the man was not falling down and had his gun in hand throughout - and the second officer shot just a few times and stopped when the man fell.

    NYC Shoot Out on Security Camera - YouTube (also CNN, first "page")


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    Interesting; and perhaps a lot of citizens who thought they couldn't run, found out they could.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ppkheat View Post
    Interesting; and perhaps a lot of citizens who thought they couldn't run, found out they could.
    Not much they can do besides engage when there's an active shooter if that's what your post is: criticism- watch it again, the man pulls a 45 out of his carrying-case and points it at the officers about to fire - he may have shot I can't tell - this happens in one second; even if there were not regulations about shooting an active shooter and I think there are - what else are they supposed to do: die? And leave a crowded street to a shooter so that he can AIM AT and shoot others after he already killed one 2 min before. .......>They shrink off center to try to avoid getting hit behind those little trees or whatever and a parking-sign pole but the man just moves his gun right at them. They have no time to find a better shooting position - the second police officer found a slightly better one in the second the first one was firing (while running to his side to have more distance) - but they have Right Now. What would you do - as a police officer?

    Better watch it again though, you have 0 seconds to do whatever different.
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    Distinguished Member Array Once's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by detective View Post
    Not much they can do besides engage when there's an active shooter if that's what your post is: crticism- watch it again, the man pulls a 45 out of his carrying-case and points it at the officers about to fire - he may have shot I can't tell - this happens in one second; even if there were not regulations about shooting an active shooter and I think there are - what else are they supposed to do: die? And leave a crowded street to a shooter so that he can AIM AT and shoot others after he already killed one 2 min before. They have no time to find a better shooting position - the second police officer found a slightly better one in the second the first one was firing - but they have Right Now. What you do - as a police officer?

    Better watch it again though, you have 0 seconds to do whatever different.
    Excellent point.

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    This looks like suicide by cop. It probably wasn't a situation where an armed citizenry could have done anything about.

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    9 bystanders hit though - fortunately early reports suggest none fatally, but did the cops panic and therefore never actually acquire the target in their sights to give them the best chance of hitting only the intended target? (the BG was not a fast moving target.)

    Also looks like the BG drew when confronted, so did they have time to get better positioned before challenging?

    I wasn't there, the video quality is poor, and am not accusing anyone of anything - but there could have been multiple fatalities, and that would have raised these questions.

    Maybe it's early days and these questions will come up. Standby for the lawsuits.

    I think of situations like this every time I carry - because a crowd could render you helpless.

    In any case I hope the 2 cops come out OK and learn well if there were any mistakes.
    "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
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    I'm guessing that everyone who caught spall were included in the total number of bystanders hit.
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    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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    Member Array macg19's Avatar
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    spall?
    "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
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    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macg19 View Post
    spall?
    Spall | Define Spall at Dictionary.com

    a chip or splinter, as of stone or ore.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
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    Member Array macg19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad426 View Post
    Spall | Define Spall at Dictionary.com

    a chip or splinter, as of stone or ore.
    thank you
    "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
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    CNN Breaking News email just received:

    All nine people injured in Friday's shooting in front of the Empire State Building were wounded by police gunfire, New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly told reporters Saturday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by macg19 View Post
    thank you
    If you ever shoot steel targets at close ranges, you will become intimately familiar with many of the characteristics and effects of spall.
    tricolordad and marcclarke like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb1900 View Post
    This looks like suicide by cop. It probably wasn't a situation where an armed citizenry could have done anything about.
    Great point, never thought of that! He either draws and doesn't fire immediately, waits a second and by then cops are firing, or draws, waits a beat, then fires a millisecond . Can't tell if he fires. Either way, he acts like you said, asking to be shot by not just opening up with fire soon as his gun clears the bag.

    A civilian: Yes, the whole thing happens so fast it would be over before you had a sense of it happening. It's amazing and scary how fast you have to react when a lethal threat is on top of you.

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    Member Array Roon's Avatar
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    The cop in the rear is 1 handing it, and we are surprised at the amount of collateral damage?

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    Quote Originally Posted by macg19 View Post
    9 bystanders hit though - fortunately early reports suggest none fatally, but did the cops panic and therefore never actually acquire the target in their sights to give them the best chance of hitting only the intended target? (the BG was not a fast moving target.)

    Also looks like the BG drew when confronted, so did they have time to get better positioned before challenging?

    I wasn't there, the video quality is poor, and am not accusing anyone of anything - but there could have been multiple fatalities, and that would have raised these questions.

    Maybe it's early days and these questions will come up. Standby for the lawsuits.

    I think of situations like this every time I carry - because a crowd could render you helpless.

    In any case I hope the 2 cops come out OK and learn well if there were any mistakes.
    No time to use sights I don't think, they were moving both to the left side trying to "scrunch" themselves up behind objects near the street, then the first cop who fired was running to the left and getting distance while firing - the second cop may have, he had a second more than the first.

    I read a study once on night-sights and their use in actual gunfights. I think most questioned were police but some civilians also. Now its not the same as day, on the other hand the sights stand out usually more if they are night sights. The question was: "Did you have time to use sighting" No one did actually sight with them, as in using all three. The most that some could do was lay a momentary touch with the front sight on the target. Nothing else, no real aiming, no time - mostly point shooting with a little help from front sight. That was it.

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