Police: All Empire State shooting victims were wounded by officers.

This is a discussion on Police: All Empire State shooting victims were wounded by officers. within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by kaboomkaboom Maybe instead of Bloomberg arguing to take guns away from law abiding citizens, he should take them away from his own ...

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 61
Like Tree16Likes

Thread: Police: All Empire State shooting victims were wounded by officers.

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array Bullet1234's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    963
    Quote Originally Posted by kaboomkaboom View Post
    Maybe instead of Bloomberg arguing to take guns away from law abiding citizens, he should take them away from his own police force...
    Why jesting,,,,, nearly half their shots hit FRIENDLIES,,,, I knew I was staying out of NYC for a good reason,,,,,
    1) I can not carry my weapons in NYC
    the other reasons is
    2)NYC police CAN NOT SHOT THEIRS ,,,, WERE WELL AT ALL.

    People of NYC seem to be in as much danger from the cops ,,,, as the BG ,,, at least in this situation.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #32
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion County, Ohio
    Posts
    10,134
    Quote Originally Posted by kaboomkaboom View Post
    As I said in my original post, I do not see in the video where the bad guy ever "pointed" the gun at the officers...it was, I believe pointed at the ground. Yes, I know how fast it could have been brought into play...Besides, verbal commands should always be given and I didn't (maybe couldn't) see that that was done at all in the video.

    I did not say they should have given verbal WARNING...much different then verbal COMMANDS...I am of the school of thought, that verbal commands should be given always, until a "gun Battle" actually ensues, and even then, in some cases, should continue to be given...At the beginning of nearly every law enforcement force continuum are verbal commands, considered to be the first method of gaining subject compliance...

    Verbal commands are so basic they can be easily overlooked or dismissed as unimportant.However, the opposite is true. Verbal commands very often set the tone for the ultimate outcome of police encounters for street officers and even SWAT. Verbal commands have been an integral component of law enforcement from the earliest days of policing,for a good reason. IMHO, they should even be used by citizens before and certainly once one goes to condition red...

    Many will disagree...even different police departments have their different take on the matter.
    It is easily demonstrated that a shooter can point and shoot from the low ready before the guy pointing a gun at him can react and pull the trigger. It is also easily demonstrated that screaming while or immediately prior to shooting adversely affects accuracy. In lethal force confrontations, I will leave the verbal commands to those compelled to give them as a matter of conscience, law or policy.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  4. #33
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion County, Ohio
    Posts
    10,134
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet1234 View Post
    Why jesting,,,,, nearly half their shots hit FRIENDLIES,,,, I knew I was staying out of NYC for a good reason,,,,,
    1) I can not carry my weapons in NYC
    the other reasons is
    2)NYC police CAN NOT SHOT THEIRS ,,,, WERE WELL AT ALL.

    People of NYC seem to be in as much danger from the cops ,,,, as the BG ,,, at least in this situation.
    Three out of sixteen is nearly half?
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  5. #34
    Distinguished Member Array onacoma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    1,320
    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    Trained Officers? The BS about the Cops carrying 9mm because in cases like this the collateral damage wouldn't be as bad as if they were carrying a larger caliber is the NYPD trying to candy coat the fact that a lack of training caused numerous people to be shot
    So let see about training? The last officer involved shooting at the PD I insult for involved a gang banger who got shot in the rump doing a drive by in another town, our officer, not the best shot in the much, put the vehicle over and approached. Note in the vehicle there was three other individuals and a Chihuahua! The banger pulled a gun while seated in the car and the officer cleared leather and placed three rounds in the upper torso before the banger could get a shot off, and he didn't wound any of the others or the damn dog! With a 40 S & W!

    While the City with the largest PD budgets can't shoot, maybe Boom-Berg should give them non-lethal or just one round for there gun until they can afford training for their officers!

    As a note in the range we're putting in we'll have a robot for tuller drills, running man as well as the normal targets! I try to train every week and while I'm not sure how I would react as it been over 40 years since I pointed a firearm at a person and pulled the trigger, I think I wouldn't have put a shot down range without have the front sight on center mass!


    In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm and three or more is a congress. -- John Adams

    If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free! -- P.J. O'Rourke

  6. #35
    Distinguished Member Array AZJD1968's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Wichita Falls Tx.
    Posts
    1,503
    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    Trained Officers?Seriously LOL I'd like to see how many times a year they actually qualify and if they ever fire their guns other than qualifications,I train weekly and there is no doubt in my mind that all 9 rounds from my 1911 45 would hit the target at 8 feet.If you watch the video one LEO is running away while shooting one handed while his partner is in a traditional combat stance and engaging the BG,I would bet money on who's rounds missed their target.
    Yes, seriously. I know that they have been trained, at least to the minimum standards of the NYPD. I don't know how often these particular officers practiced, but they have to requalify twice a year. I wonder how confident they were at hitting their targets. The body has many reactions to stress in a SD situation... fight or flight is one of them. It looks like one officer reacted in both manners. I hope he didn't think he could rely on his shot placement. Proves my point.
    The BS about the Cops carrying 9mm because in cases like this the collateral damage wouldn't be as bad as if they were carrying a larger caliber is the NYPD trying to candy coat the fact that a lack of training caused numerous people to be shot
    I tend to agree with this statement.
    Stop whining and go do something that makes a difference!
    If you think that I may be talking to you, then I am.

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TX/NH
    Posts
    5,811
    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Generally speaking the laser dot that is sitting on top of my front sight is mine. If I want to verify that I can drop my point of aim a couple of inches and see if that red spot moves with it. If it doesn't we have a problem.
    Bingo! When we trained with lasers in situations that could involve multiple GG's and a lot of friendlies around that is what you did.

    I don't care how well it is sighted in. If some are on the BG and some are not you do not know who's is which. Stress does strange things to ones aim.
    Last edited by suntzu; August 26th, 2012 at 08:47 PM.

  8. #37
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    So. Central PA
    Posts
    1,727
    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Generally speaking the laser dot that is sitting on top of my front sight is mine. If I want to verify that I can drop my point of aim a couple of inches and see if that red spot moves with it. If it doesn't we have a problem.
    I'm confused here. The idea is to get hits on the bad guy who is about to shoot at you. If you have the sights on the target, why the heck do you give a darn about the laser? Move sights to see if laser moves? That makes exactly zero sense to me. Screw the laser, with sights on the person about to shoot you, pull the trigger!

    Fitch
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety), by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” by H. L. Mencken

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Wyoming, DE
    Posts
    10,963
    They are going to be very rich soon!
    Hiram25
    You can educate ignorance, you can't fix stupid
    Retired DE Trooper, SA XD40 SC, S&W 2" Airweight
    dukalmighty & Pure Kustom Black Ops Pro "Trooper" Holsters, DE CCDW and LEOSA Permits, Vietnam Vet 68-69 Pleiku

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TX/NH
    Posts
    5,811
    Quote Originally Posted by Fitch View Post
    I'm confused here. The idea is to get hits on the bad guy who is about to shoot at you. If you have the sights on the target, why the heck do you give a darn about the laser? Move sights to see if laser moves? That makes exactly zero sense to me. Screw the laser, with sights on the person about to shoot you, pull the trigger!

    Fitch
    I agree with using iron sights in a situation like NY. My post was in response to folks that want to use a laser in that situation with other folks using lasers. In my post I said lasers have there use but not for every job.

  11. #40
    Senior Member Array TonyDTrigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    856
    Quote Originally Posted by ppkheat View Post
    I'm sure that some comments could be made about the officers shooting accuracy, but I wouldn't be too fast about saying that. I saw on the video all the people scrambling, but some of the wounded could have easily been 100 yds away.
    One LEO was standing right next to the BG and he missed. The other maybe 10 feet away.

  12. #41
    Member Array Bob F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Princeton WV
    Posts
    135
    TRAINING!! "If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." 8lb trigger and little range time is not conducive to accuracy or confidence. At least they've not done away w/ cops like Camden?, NJ!

  13. #42
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Fayetteville, AR
    Posts
    13,687
    "Fragments?" Interesting.
    Who's actually a victim if they survive?
    Careless shots fired by police?
    C'mon now.......what's going on here? East coast California? Escape from NY? Truth is getting more obscure each and every day......just like the Jonesboro self inflicted gunshot ordeal closer to home for me. Many facts lacking.

  14. #43
    Distinguished Member Array AZJD1968's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Wichita Falls Tx.
    Posts
    1,503
    You ask this in post #20:
    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    May I pose a question for those that have lasers. (I feel lasers have there place, but not all the time). Let us say 6 folks (LEO's or CC'ers) had lasers. 3 Had the dot on the BG and 3 did not. How do you know that your laser is on target? It is possible beleive it or not for those that have never been in a high stress situation to not not make correct decisions and they can still suffer from adrenaline and be off the target. Just saying.
    And then suddenly know an answer in post #36:

    Originally Posted by mcp1810 Generally speaking the laser dot that is sitting on top of my front sight is mine. If I want to verify that I can drop my point of aim a couple of inches and see if that red spot moves with it. If it doesn't we have a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Bingo! When we trained with lasers in situations that could involve multiple GG's and a lot of friendlies around that is what you did.

    I don't care how well it is sighted in. If some are on the BG and some are not you do not know who's is which. Stress does strange things to ones aim.
    Interesting.
    Stop whining and go do something that makes a difference!
    If you think that I may be talking to you, then I am.

  15. #44
    Distinguished Member Array AZJD1968's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Wichita Falls Tx.
    Posts
    1,503
    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Who's actually a victim if they survive?
    ?? What does this mean?
    Stop whining and go do something that makes a difference!
    If you think that I may be talking to you, then I am.

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TX/NH
    Posts
    5,811
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJD1968 View Post
    You ask this in post #20:

    And then suddenly know an answer in post #36:


    Interesting.
    What is so interesting? You are obviously trying to make a point about something. Just come right out and say it. Ya don't need to be afraid here LOL

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

accuracy and training of two police officers at empire state building

,

all nine people injured in friday's shooting in front of the empire state building were wounded by police gunfire,

,

new york shooting defensive carry

,

police encounters with victims gone wrong

,

police shooting gone bad officer shot whicita falls

,

police: all empire state shooting victims were wounded by officers forums

Click on a term to search for related topics.