Police: All Empire State shooting victims were wounded by officers.

This is a discussion on Police: All Empire State shooting victims were wounded by officers. within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; New York (CNN) -- All nine people injured in Friday's shooting in front of the Empire State Building were wounded by police gunfire, New York ...

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 61
Like Tree16Likes

Thread: Police: All Empire State shooting victims were wounded by officers.

  1. #1
    VIP Member
    Array GunnyBunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Victoria, B.C.
    Posts
    3,888

    Police: All Empire State shooting victims were wounded by officers.

    New York (CNN) -- All nine people injured in Friday's shooting in front of the Empire State Building were wounded by police gunfire, New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly told reporters Saturday.

    The officers unloaded a total of 16 rounds at a disgruntled former apparel designer, killing him after he shot and killed a co-worker and engaged in a gunbattle with police, authorities have said.

    Authorities said an investigation is under way after one officer shot nine rounds and another shot seven. Three victims suffered gunshot wounds, while the remaining six were hit by fragments.

    Police identified the gunman as Jeffrey Johnson, 58, who was apparently laid off from his job as a designer of women's accessories at Hazan Import Co. last year.
    CCW permit holder for Idaho, Utah, Pennsylvania, Maine and New Hampshire. I can carry in your country but not my own.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member
    Array ppkheat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    4,064
    Very interesting. Boy oh boy, didn't the media initially try to play it up almost trying to make it sound like a Batman movie rampage shooter. Three people suffered GSW's, another six from fragments, hopefully all are minor, I'd think the fragments would be.

    I'm sure that some comments could be made about the officers shooting accuracy, but I wouldn't be too fast about saying that. This guy pointed a gun at them in a crowded location, I'd say they don't have time to "check beyond their target". Furthermore, if they hadn't stopped the BG so fast, it's likely his own fire would have added to more casualties behind the officers.

    Bad deal, but the officers don't have time to warn all the people out of the way. I saw on the video all the people scrambling, but some of the wounded could have easily been 100 yds away.
    ericb327 likes this.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    7,602
    Video released by NYC ... of when the police shot him. It doesn't appear he ever shot at the police in that video. He pointed his gun in their direction, but doesn't show him shooting at the police. I sure couldn't see any "gun battle" with the police. AS soon as he pointed the gun toward one officer, they were justifed to take this guy out, but I'm just saying.... seems like it was NOT a "gun battle" at all. Misinformation again from the media. Seems NYC citizens were in more danger of the NYC police dept in this situation. Maybe Bloomberg should break down and get them more range time.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  5. #4
    Member Array kaboomkaboom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    186
    Maybe instead of Bloomberg arguing to take guns away from law abiding citizens, he should take them away from his own police force...Okay, I jest...but training!! I saw the video...the police should have 1) Given a verbal command 2) tackled him and taken him down/or one covered the other took him down...they could have shaken his hand in two steps they were so close!(It looked to me that the bad guys weapon was never pointed "at" the officers, but towards the ground... I could be wrong but I watched the video several times)

    I do not mean to pick on the officers who had to make fast decisions in a very strenuous situation, but just imagine what they would be saying if, in order to protect our own life and that of others, we , as CPL holders,had drawn, engaged and killed the bad guy, but also wounded 9 other people....and fired so many errant rounds!

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    NC Foothills
    Posts
    2,471
    There was an awful lot of luck concentrated in that 20 foot circle of sidewalk. The mere fact that we aren't discussing multiple fatalities due to stray shots is a miracle in itself. With children, people facing the opposite way, and persons seated on a bench in the direct line of fire not to mention the traffic in the street.

    I guess the best we could hope for is that somehow, training is addressed on the forth rule of shooting. "Be sure of your target and what lies beyond".

    A prayer was answered for a few folks.
    bgusty likes this.
    North Carolina Concealed Handgun Permit Instructor
    NRA Personal Protection and Basic Pistol Instructor

  7. #6
    Member Array diver1102's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    189
    If it were a CC'er you know they would be charged with all sorts of felonies. My question is can the victims get compensation from the city? Can they sue? Or is just like too bad you got shot, deal with it.

  8. #7
    Member Array azretired's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Arizona, USA
    Posts
    203
    Yes they can sue and probably should. You, even police officers, are responsible for every round that leaves your gun.

    Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2
    Badey likes this.
    Livin the Life!
    Join and Support the NRA

  9. #8
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bellevue, Ky/Cincinatti
    Posts
    1,413
    Quote Originally Posted by kaboomkaboom View Post
    Maybe instead of Bloomberg arguing to take guns away from law abiding citizens, he should take them away from his own police force...Okay, I jest...but training!! I saw the video...the police should have 1) Given a verbal command 2) tackled him and taken him down/or one covered the other took him down...they could have shaken his hand in two steps they were so close!(It looked to me that the bad guys weapon was never pointed "at" the officers, but towards the ground... I could be wrong but I watched the video several times)

    I do not mean to pick on the officers who had to make fast decisions in a very strenuous situation, but just imagine what they would be saying if, in order to protect our own life and that of others, we , as CPL holders,had drawn, engaged and killed the bad guy, but also wounded 9 other people....and fired so many errant rounds!
    When someone points a gun, the time for verbal commands has come and gone!
    Brad426 and Echo_Four like this.
    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

    https://www.facebook.com/ninja312


    My food and product review blog
    http://trualitybarandgrille.wordpress.com/

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    3,678
    Quote Originally Posted by kaboomkaboom View Post
    Maybe instead of Bloomberg arguing to take guns away from law abiding citizens, he should take them away from his own police force...Okay, I jest...but training!! I saw the video...the police should have 1) Given a verbal command 2) tackled him and taken him down/or one covered the other took him down...they could have shaken his hand in two steps they were so close!(It looked to me that the bad guys weapon was never pointed "at" the officers, but towards the ground... I could be wrong but I watched the video several times)

    I do not mean to pick on the officers who had to make fast decisions in a very strenuous situation, but just imagine what they would be saying if, in order to protect our own life and that of others, we , as CPL holders,had drawn, engaged and killed the bad guy, but also wounded 9 other people....and fired so many errant rounds!
    Dude, seriously? "Larry! Stop point that gun at my dad!"
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
    Clint Eastwood

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bellevue, Ky/Cincinatti
    Posts
    1,413
    Quote Originally Posted by Brad426 View Post
    Dude, seriously? "Larry! Stop point that gun at my dad!"
    Great quote from a great movie!
    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

    https://www.facebook.com/ninja312


    My food and product review blog
    http://trualitybarandgrille.wordpress.com/

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,231
    If you were a Citizen and had been CC (not in NY). And even one person had minor injury you would be sitting in jail right now.
    If you were a soldier in Iraq or some other places and a round stuck someone you would be charged by the current system.
    This is not the first time the NY police dept has had issues with shooting. Was not to long ago they shot an unarmed man so many times they could not count the holes..
    Not going to judge them but I do have a right to question.
    Compensation ? NY what do you think they will get cash their bothers and sister will sue their next born will get a payment.
    Heck people that saw it happen will sue.

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Where the deer and the antelope roam
    Posts
    2,705
    When I was in patrol and the SWAT team was called, we left as soon as they got there. Half of the time they got involved they shot someone, half of the time they shot someone it was a cop on the scene. The lesson I learned from that, when people are shooting at each other bullets go all everywhere. I can't tell you how many robberies I worked where freeto's, coke's and walkin coolers were killed.
    Tayopo likes this.
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    3,678
    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    When I was in patrol and the SWAT team was called, we left as soon as they got there. Half of the time they got involved they shot someone, half of the time they shot someone it was a cop on the scene. The lesson I learned from that, when people are shooting at each other bullets go all everywhere. I can't tell you how many robberies I worked where freeto's, coke's and walkin coolers were killed.
    Fritos as collateral damage is unacceptable.
    atctimmy likes this.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
    Clint Eastwood

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TX/NH
    Posts
    5,803
    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    If you were a Citizen and had been CC (not in NY). And even one person had minor injury you would be sitting in jail right now.
    If you were a soldier in Iraq or some other places and a round stuck someone you would be charged by the current system.
    This is not the first time the NY police dept has had issues with shooting. Was not to long ago they shot an unarmed man so many times they could not count the holes..
    Not going to judge them but I do have a right to question.
    Compensation ? NY what do you think they will get cash their bothers and sister will sue their next born will get a payment.
    Heck people that saw it happen will sue.
    There is a difference in a police shooting and a civilian shooting. This goes back to what I was talking about in the Aurora thread. If the CC'er is not in danger nor is he trying to protect a loved one and he goes and try's to play SWAT team and he injures someone he is at fault. I do not care what his intentions are. Most folks are not prepared to deal with those situations.

    It is the same thing if a LEO gets into an accident during a high speed chase. If it is within the guide lines of his dept to be allowed to pursue and there is an accident then it is the perps fault. Not the officer. If folks favor CC'er's playing SWAT (again, not a CC'er defending themselves) then you should also be in favor of a driver chasing down drunk drivers, hit and runs and other folks. And if their is an accident who is fault is that? The driver,,,duh.

    I am not a big LEO fan (sorry guys, but I do understand you have a job to do and a hard one). But I don't go around trashing folks because they were doing their job. And we all know that many LEO's do not get the training resources they need. In that case the fault lies with management and taxpayer.

    I do think that LEO's need to be prosecuted or at least dismissed more often for negligent use of firearms. I d think they get a by with a lot.

    And so do soldiers in a combat zone. Very few have been brought up on charges. I won;t debate the merits of each one. But the poster here makes it sound like soldiers are being marched in front of a courtsmartial everyday when that is not the truth. If I want hyperbole I can always read some newsletters from certain organizations.
    Echo_Four likes this.

  16. #15
    Distinguished Member Array AZJD1968's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Wichita Falls Tx.
    Posts
    1,451
    I would like to point out something here ,and some of this could be speculation but I will do it anyway.
    There were 16 shots by 2 officers and I think that it is fair to say (speculation on my part) that there were a FEW misses. The range seems to me like it was 20 feet + or - a few.
    My point is that this was a very high stress situation and the trained officers still required 16 shots to stop the gunnman. This goes to show that because of the effects of stress and adrenaline on the body, shot placement can't always be relied on in the heat of the moment.

    BTW... I carry and train with a Laser, maybe that would have helped the officers not shoot 9 other people.
    Stop whining and go do something that makes a difference!
    If you think that I may be talking to you, then I am.

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

accuracy and training of two police officers at empire state building

,

all nine people injured in friday's shooting in front of the empire state building were wounded by police gunfire,

,

new york shooting defensive carry

,

police encounters with victims gone wrong

,

police shooting gone bad officer shot whicita falls

,

police: all empire state shooting victims were wounded by officers forums

Click on a term to search for related topics.