Local: 9 year olds fighting... one has a gun?

This is a discussion on Local: 9 year olds fighting... one has a gun? within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; It's not clear whether it was real or not... the gun that is... but it is possible... in the neighborhood in which it occurred... Story ...

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Thread: Local: 9 year olds fighting... one has a gun?

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Local: 9 year olds fighting... one has a gun?

    It's not clear whether it was real or not... the gun that is... but it is possible... in the neighborhood in which it occurred...

    Story Here

    If it was real... and a 9 Y.O. pulled a gun out of his waist band and pointed it at you, finger on the trigger... what would you do... A 9 Y.O. What if you couldn't tell 100% whether it was real or not...

    I know, it's been discussed before... Just reminding all of us how interesting life can get, in short order.
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    it’s the video games that take the reality out of a firearm

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    The bad side of this would be the fact that in cases such as this, anyone responding may feel the weapon is real and that could end very badly for both sides. A Police Officer has but mere seconds to decide if a firearm in the hand of someone is real or not.

    Yes, there have been a few threads where the handgun in the hands of the perp turned out to be non-functional or a toy. It is simply a bad thing to do by pointing any object resembling a hand gun. Police may have no choice but to shoot an individual who they believe is holding the real thing.
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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    it’s the video games that take the reality out of a firearm
    I have to disagree. In my opinion its the lack of parenting. When I was a kid I remember my parents and my friends parents constantly reminding us and making sure we knew the difference between real and make believe.

    Blaming TV, music lyrics, movies and other outside influences is just a way to absolve parents of their responsibility.

    Michael

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I have to disagree. In my opinion its the lack of parenting. When I was a kid I remember my parents and my friends parents constantly reminding us and making sure we knew the difference between real and make believe.

    Blaming TV, music lyrics, movies and other outside influences is just a way to absolve parents of their responsibility.

    Michael
    You are correct BUT the influences of other things around kids make a difference. Being a good parent is great but what happens when a parent is no so good and dumps the kid in front of the TV or allows them to play graphic video games? This is what you get; instead of a kid exploring his own worth’s and ability’s videos and movies teach that you can get revenge from a gun.

    You can't compare yourself to kids of today. TV was nowhere near as violent 40 years ago as it is today. If a kid grows up in a war torn country then violence is the normal just as a kid that grows up in the deep city is way different then a kid that grows up in Nebraska in the Corn Belt.
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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    You are correct BUT the influences of other things around kids make a difference. Being a good parent is great but what happens when a parent is no so good and dumps the kid in front of the TV or allows them to play graphic video games? This is what you get; instead of a kid exploring his own worth’s and ability’s videos and movies teach that you can get revenge from a gun.

    You can't compare yourself to kids of today. TV was nowhere near as violent 40 years ago as it is today. If a kid grows up in a war torn country then violence is the normal just as a kid that grows up in the deep city is way different then a kid that grows up in Nebraska in the Corn Belt.
    Being a bad parent does not shift the blame or responsibilities onto those outside influences the parent was supposed to protect their child against.

    Michael
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    Senior Member Array GeorgiaDawg's Avatar
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    It's not video games, TV, movies, or music. It's parenting. I grew up with violent movies and video games and I knew the difference between reality and make-believe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaDawg View Post
    It's not video games, TV, movies, or music. It's parenting. I grew up with violent movies and video games and I knew the difference between reality and make-believe.

    ^^^^^^^ +1
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    Games and movies have nothing to do with it. As others have said: parenting 100%. My six year old occasionally plays games and watches movies he probably shouldn't. Does he know guns are dangerous? Yup. Does he know the difference between a toy and a real gun? Yup. Does he understand that real guns will kill and that dead is forever? Absolutely.

    He knows I have firearms. When we're out camping, hiking or shooting at a friends farm, he doesn't pay any mind to them...I've taken the stigma away and he knows they are not for children. When he gets a bit older? Perhaps. But that depends on his level of responsibility at the time.

    Whether they grow up in Detroit, Nebraska, the inner cities, the suburbs, or a rural area; it doesn't matter. You can have good and bad parents everywhere.
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    As kids we played the politely incorrect games of Army and Cowboys and Indians. We would pretend to shoot each other and play dead.

    We were around guns ..real guns and knew what they could do because we were shown via the blowing up a milk bottle with a 30-06 at a young age. We knew never touch a real gun. We didn't need locks and when we are mature enough we were taught to shoot one. It was a legacy passed down from generations

    Parents even of you do not own a gun need to sit there kids down and explain firearms and safety to them.

    Geez... I remember in the 3rd grade we had the " Policeman" come in with his pistol and a shotgun and explain safety to the class and we even got to touch it...just couldn't hold it!


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    Ex Member Array Adrenaline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Being a bad parent does not shift the blame or responsibilities onto those outside influences the parent was supposed to protect their child against.

    Michael
    Cannot agree with anything more than this.


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    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Being a bad parent does not shift the blame or responsibilities onto those outside influences the parent was supposed to protect their child against.
    how you plan on doing that, lock them up in a room with no outside infuances?

    It's not video games, TV, movies, or music. It's parenting. I grew up with violent movies and video games and I knew the difference between reality and make-believe
    we this reasoning you are claiming that every person in jail has bad parents....????

    Watching violence makes for angry kids, study shows

    Macquarie University Children and Families Research Centre deputy director Dr. Wayne Warburton said Tuesday that years of study across the world showed definite links between time spent watching dramatized violence and the likelihood of aggressive behavior in the young.



    Watching violence makes for angry kids, study shows | Fox News

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    If it was real... and a 9 Y.O. pulled a gun out of his waist band and pointed it at you, finger on the trigger... what would you do... A 9 Y.O. What if you couldn't tell 100% whether it was real or not...
    Hard to know the specific age of the assailant, whether it's real.

    Tough situation. Haven't been in this one, myself, but I'm betting I'd try a bit of plain-language Q&A with the kid. Does he/she realize shooting someone can kill, can change your life forever, can get you put in prison for a lifetime, get your family labeled as "that bunch of murderers" for a lifetime?, etc. Whereas the average ~20yr old wouldn't be fazed by such pleas to sanity, a kid might well. I'd make darned sure to find out the identity of the little bugger's parents, to try to ensure such corrections as could be made were implemented.

    But if there was every indication via demeanor, intent and tool that it was all real and imminent, the situation is what it is: a deadly force situation that legally justifies protection of innocent life.


    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    it’s the video games that take the reality out of a firearm
    I have to disagree. In my opinion its the lack of parenting. When I was a kid I remember my parents and my friends parents constantly reminding us and making sure we knew the difference between real and make believe.

    Blaming TV, music lyrics, movies and other outside influences is just a way to absolve parents of their responsibility.
    I think a variety of factors have influence over a person's ability to learn from a situation. The realism of the training is one. The presence or lack of guidance/mentoring about the training is another. As are the elements of the training that allows for repeating the tests/lessons, getting incentives to alter behavior in the simulation, and so on.

    But I think it's important to distinguish between the changing nature of the "play/simulation" environment that people have at their disposal, today. Regarding youths, it used to be that grabbing a toy gun/bow and playing with friends was the primary role-play variant, with reading and storytelling being the other common media. Then, along came radio, movies, television, but still each of these were others doing to others.

    The distinction with video games is the "perfect storm" of factors such highly real simulation can create: the person is the actor in the driver's seat, unlike each other medium; there's a fair realism with today's decent graphics and computer power/controls; there's the computer's ability to present the "message" over and over again; there's the much-loved incentive of improved score based on the murder/mayhem created; and there aren't consequences. The person gets to "see what it's like" directly, in the position of the shooter/whatever, using the tools, causing the blood/gore/death, getting incentive to do it, having the ability to do it over and over again, ...

    Irrespective of who's at the controls (kids or others), such simulation training tools have influencing of the participants occurring that we've not seen before.

    As an example, consider how effectively simulators are used in other role-playing scenarios where it's too costly to do test-runs: LEO/military mission training; flight simulation training; space training. Consider the push toward force-on-force defensive training, simulating actual engagements more realistically. Such training makes the actual events far more likely to succeed, when done effectively. Point being, the influence of such training is real.

    Such "simulator" training effects in a video simulated environment, particularly unguided/unsupervised, is also very real. Particularly with young'uns. And, of course, particularly whenever such simulated training (of any kind, any medium) is done without guidance and informed evaluation/reflection.

    NOTE: I am not blaming any single medium or factor. I'm simply suggesting the current tools allow a degree of simulation and scenarios, a degree of reality, putting the actor in the driver's seat, and risk of lack of guidance/mentoring in combination that is highly influential. That combination is something we've not seen before. I fear we haven't given nearly enough consideration to how much of an impact such factors have, particularly in combination.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; September 8th, 2012 at 09:42 PM. Reason: spelin, gramur
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    "If it was real... and a 9 Y.O. pulled a gun out of his waist band and pointed it at you, finger on the trigger... what would you do... A 9 Y.O. What if you couldn't tell 100% whether it was real or not..."

    I don't think I'd be waiting very long to find out. Been more than one BG shot while carrying a toy gun.
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    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    how you plan on doing that, lock them up in a room with no outside infuances?


    we this reasoning you are claiming that every person in jail has bad parents....????

    Watching violence makes for angry kids, study shows

    Macquarie University Children and Families Research Centre deputy director Dr. Wayne Warburton said Tuesday that years of study across the world showed definite links between time spent watching dramatized violence and the likelihood of aggressive behavior in the young.



    Watching violence makes for angry kids, study shows | Fox News
    It's up to the parents to judge the child's level of maturity and decide whether or not to allow them to do certain things based on that. I saw WAY too many kids running around getting drunk when I was in my early teens. The parents didn't give a rip, so neither did the kids. My parents instilled values and morals in me at an early age, and it kept me straight while I was growing up. Even with every opportunity to screw up, I rarely did. Now that's not to say that when a kid turns out rotten that it is always and completely the parents fault. My half-brother turned out to be a real POS, criminal, scumbag, even though we were raised by the same parents.

    How anyone could blame this kind of stuff on video games is beyond me. If a kid doesn't know the difference between a game and reality, it IS up to the parents to keep them away from those kinds of things. I grew up playing every violent game I could get my hands on, and I turned out fine. Heck, I remember playing the first Syphon Filter when I was only 3 or 4.

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