Administration Expands ATF’s Power to Seize Property = Your Firearms

Administration Expands ATF’s Power to Seize Property = Your Firearms

This is a discussion on Administration Expands ATF’s Power to Seize Property = Your Firearms within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Article Gun Laws, Politics & 2nd Amendment - 09.07.2012 Story by: S.H. Blannelberry As part of a one-year trial run, the Department of Justice has ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 43
Like Tree27Likes

Thread: Administration Expands ATF’s Power to Seize Property = Your Firearms

  1. #1
    VIP Member
    Array ANGLICO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    I'm the guy next door that is polite, but does not tell you crap.
    Posts
    3,574

    Administration Expands ATF’s Power to Seize Property = Your Firearms

    Article Gun Laws, Politics & 2nd Amendment - 09.07.2012
    Story by: S.H. Blannelberry

    As part of a one-year trial run, the Department of Justice has granted the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives the power to “to seize and administratively forfeit property allegedly involved in controlled substance offenses,” which is almost tantamount to saying that on the mere suspicion that one is doing something illegal, the ATF can snatch one’s firearms and property.

    The Washington Times, among other publications, have explained the implications of this new DoJ decree:

    It’s a dangerous extension of the civil-forfeiture doctrine, a surreal legal fiction in which the seized property — not a person — is put on trial. This allows prosecutors to dispense with pesky constitutional rights, which conveniently don’t apply to inanimate objects. In this looking-glass world, the owner is effectively guilty until proved innocent and has the burden of proving otherwise. Anyone falsely accused will never see his property again unless he succeeds in an expensive uphill legal battle.

    ......snip.....So, in other words, now we have at least two federal agencies that can, on a regular basis, seemingly supplant due process and the fourth amendment to take one’s property.

    With respect to one’s money, the burden of proof required is even more tenuously worded. That is, as The Firearm Blog, and The Truth About Guns reported, the ATF doesn’t even need to find drugs; rather it can snatch one’s cash “on theories that the currency was furnished, or intended to be furnished, in exchange for a controlled substance.”

    Obviously, there are a lot of questions. Among them, how can the government do this without Congressional approval or oversight? Well, Executive Order:

    This rule has been drafted and reviewed in accordance with Executive Order 12866, “Regulatory Planning and Review,” section 1(b), Principles of Regulation, and with Executive Order 13563, “Improving Regulation and Regulatory Review.,” This rule is limited to agency organization, management, or personnel matters as described by Executive Order 12866, section 3(d)(3) and, therefore, is not a “regulation” or “rule” as defined by that Executive Order.

    Also, along those lines, the editors at the Washington Times see it as a confiscatory measure specifically designed to take guns and money from the law-abiding.

    Obama Administration Expands ATF?s Power to Seize Property - Gun News at Guns.com
    Last edited by ANGLICO; September 8th, 2012 at 10:17 PM.
    Socialism Kills! Time proven, with a very large body count! We are a Constitutional Republic....... not a Democracy, get it correct!

    Don't be mistaken for a Gecko45: http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/

    Watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14qTdp-Dd30

    ANGLICO Images


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    2,248
    This is why voting in this election cycle is of the up most importance. Don't be mislead by any third party candidates. It will result in a vote for the present administration. I hope if the Republicans win this will be one of the many things overturned.

    Even if the Republicans win...we will always need to keep "tabs" on what they are doing. Apathy spread widely again will sink this country. Watch all the Politicians we "hire" because they serve us....not the other way around. I don't belong to the government....it belongs to me (that goes for all the "mes").
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,008
    As part of a one-year trial run, the Department of Justice has granted the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives the power to “to seize and administratively forfeit property allegedly involved in controlled substance offenses,” which is almost tantamount to saying that on the mere suspicion that one is doing something illegal, the ATF can snatch one’s firearms and property.
    It should be a simple concept to require conviction, prior to claims of guilt, let alone forfeiture of any sort.

    Doesn't surprise me that we continue down this path, blindly: accused = guilty, forfeiting everything in advance of conviction. It's a dangerously bad incentive to create, with all sorts of ugly side-effects. About as strong an incentive for taking the eye off the ball as I can think of.

    Funny, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that Congress had responsibility to make law.

    Slip slidin' away ....
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  4. #4
    VIP Member
    Array msgt/ret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    7,366
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Funny, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that Congress had responsibility to make law.Slip slidin' away ....
    Executive orders are a popular way to circumvent congress.
    Spirit51, baren, atctimmy and 3 others like this.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

  5. #5
    Ex Member Array pir8fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Mooresville, NC
    Posts
    373
    doesnt matter to me. All my guns fell in the lake when my kayak tipped over.

  6. #6
    VIP Member
    Array ANGLICO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    I'm the guy next door that is polite, but does not tell you crap.
    Posts
    3,574
    Quote Originally Posted by pir8fan View Post
    doesnt matter to me. All my guns fell in the lake when my kayak tipped over.
    Yeah. They only 'catch you' with them when you actually have to use them. Then you are doubble (cannot say any words)!
    Socialism Kills! Time proven, with a very large body count! We are a Constitutional Republic....... not a Democracy, get it correct!

    Don't be mistaken for a Gecko45: http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/

    Watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14qTdp-Dd30

    ANGLICO Images

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    15,179
    Quote Originally Posted by pir8fan View Post
    doesnt matter to me. All my guns fell in the lake when my kayak tipped over.
    Dang Pirates have all the luck,I lost mine playing poker with a buncha boy scouts
    garyacman likes this.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array peckman28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,085
    This is why it's time to abolish the ATF entirely, along with all legislative powers it administers. There should be no NFA, no 1968 GCA, no Hughes Amendment, no nothing. The ATF has no constitutional authority to even exist, and it needs to be gone and replaced with nothing like long ago. Any agency that does something like this should see its directors personally liable for what they've done, and as high as the order came from, all the way down to the agents executing, heads should roll.

  9. #9
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion County, Ohio
    Posts
    10,683
    Quote Originally Posted by pir8fan View Post
    doesnt matter to me. All my guns fell in the lake when my kayak tipped over.
    Perhaps, but what about your cash and other assets (including your kayak) which they might arbitrarily seize due to potential association with illegal activities?
    The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see.
    Ayn Rand

  10. #10
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion County, Ohio
    Posts
    10,683
    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    Dang Pirates have all the luck,I lost mine playing poker with a buncha boy scouts
    Oooh, contributing to the deliquency of minors, complete with a confession.
    The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see.
    Ayn Rand

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    7,414
    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    This is why voting in this election cycle is of the up most importance. Don't be mislead by any third party candidates. It will result in a vote for the present administration. I hope if the Republicans win this will be one of the many things overturned.

    Even if the Republicans win...we will always need to keep "tabs" on what they are doing. Apathy spread widely again will sink this country. Watch all the Politicians we "hire" because they serve us....not the other way around. I don't belong to the government....it belongs to me (that goes for all the "mes").
    Yes, vote out every incumbent... BUT, DON'T EXPECT ANYTHING TO CHANGE.

    Especially as re: executive powers.

    G.W. Cheney was an early adopter, Obummer didn't change anything there.. One of the reasons for fast and furious. Which was originally tried (as gun walker) by G.W.
    Sig 210 and OldVet like this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Richard58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Charlotte area of North Carolina
    Posts
    2,102
    Lost mine during my last move.
    The police are not there to protect you from crime, they are there to arrest the guy after the crime has been committed, assuming they find him. It is your responsibility to protect yourself and your family.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Richard58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Charlotte area of North Carolina
    Posts
    2,102
    I think both parties are playing us all like fine violins. Vote for the lesser of the two evils.
    The police are not there to protect you from crime, they are there to arrest the guy after the crime has been committed, assuming they find him. It is your responsibility to protect yourself and your family.

  14. #14
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    under a rock in area 51
    Posts
    2,548

    Obama Administration Passes New Order Making it easier to seize guns without due proc

    Obama Administration Passes New Order Making it easier to seize guns without due process

    According to the Times, this gives the federal government the power to seize the guns of citizens, even if they are merely suspected of substance abuse. These citizens do not have to be officially charged or arrested. Heck they don’t even have to be guilty.
    Not sure if this was posted but if it was delete it (I did a search) but it is worth reviewing

    Obama Administration Passes New Order Making it easier to seize guns without due process

  15. #15
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Fayetteville, AR
    Posts
    13,687
    Poseidon likes this.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

2nd amendment guns grants pass batf

,

atf executive order

,

atf firearm seizures

,

atf gun seizures

,

atf powers

,
auto forfieture law in illinois
,

did doj grant atf permission to revoke 2nd amendment?

,

doj expands atf

,

doj gives atf power to seize guns

,

executive order atf

,

obama administration expands atf?s power to seize property

,

second amendment guns grants pass forum

Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors