Bad...Can a "child" really be dangerous?

Bad...Can a "child" really be dangerous?

This is a discussion on Bad...Can a "child" really be dangerous? within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; A few days ago there was a discussion on whether self defense is really necessary in relation to a child. This case is just the ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Bad...Can a "child" really be dangerous?

    A few days ago there was a discussion on whether self defense is really necessary in relation to a child.

    This case is just the newest one I have seen. I stand by my decision that my life is just as important as anyone else, regardless of the age or relation.

    Wis. Boys, 13, Charged With Killing Great-Grandmother CBS Minnesota


    I have seen a couple of these types since that discussion, but this one is the most disturbing.
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    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein


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    Senior Member Array Lish's Avatar
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    A hatchet and a hammer...and she was one of their great grandmothers. Incredibly disturbing.

    I agree - I would use deadly force if necessary. But if they didn't have a gun, I'm sure I'd try a butt whooping first.

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    Member Array tricolordad's Avatar
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    When it involves "kids,"no matter what you do, youre going to be demonized. Even though theyre really juveniles...juveniles of all carnivores and omnivores, such as humans, are dangerous. Its a mamalian specialty.
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    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    My work in the juvenile court system tells me, YES, they can be very dangerous.

    I've been privy to the conversations that go on behind the scenes and some of these 'kids' have the most unbelievable reasons for their acts of violence. From "he dissed me by looking at me funny" to "he said something and I had to do something". Some 'kids' will decide to beat-down and rob someone because they "didn't have nuthin better to do".

    One last note: A few 'kids' can be as dangerous as a gun or a knife. Believe it...
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    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

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    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    I have done some research into sociopathy, and there have are some terrible examples of children as young as 5 who try to kill people...
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

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    Senior Member Array mano3's Avatar
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    Too scary...
    US Air Force, 1986 - 2007

    "To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them..." George Mason

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    A few days ago there was a discussion on whether self defense is really necessary in relation to a child.

    This case is just the newest one I have seen. I stand by my decision that my life is just as important as anyone else, regardless of the age or relation.

    Wis. Boys, 13, Charged With Killing Great-Grandmother CBS Minnesota


    I have seen a couple of these types since that discussion, but this one is the most disturbing.
    Spirit, I started that other thread. I never gave my answer in that thread, I wanted to see how many folks here are not prepared to end a threat. I have never been one to mince words, if a gun is pointed at me and doesnt have an orange tip, who ever is behind the gun is getting what I have with extreme violence. Some of these kids now a days think this game is fun. The scary part is, they have no feeling about it. Its the thrill of the kill......Very scary, and very sad....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    All my years in EMS and there is one that really sticks in my mind. 12 year old boy that stabbed his mother to death...over 30 times. There was nothing we could do for her, but wait for the morgue wagon. The police were trying to make some kind of sense of it. He was up in his room calmly feeding his pet hamster with the weapon on his desk. When they asked him "Why?" he answered very matter of fact, "She wanted me to take out the trash and it pissed me off." After the Police finished their long and extensive investigation, it turns out that was the ONLY reason. He was "put away" until he reached adulthood.

    Killed his mother coldly and without emotion because she asked him to do a chore. This was in the mid 70s. I wonder what happened to him after he became of age and let go. That is a frightening thought.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

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    Senior Member Array Lish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    All my years in EMS and there is one that really sticks in my mind. 12 year old boy that stabbed his mother to death...over 30 times. There was nothing we could do for her, but wait for the morgue wagon. The police were trying to make some kind of sense of it. He was up in his room calmly feeding his pet hamster with the weapon on his desk. When they asked him "Why?" he answered very matter of fact, "She wanted me to take out the trash and it pissed me off." After the Police finished their long and extensive investigation, it turns out that was the ONLY reason. He was "put away" until he reached adulthood.

    Killed his mother coldly and without emotion because she asked him to do a chore. This was in the mid 70s. I wonder what happened to him after he became of age and let go. That is a frightening thought.
    Spirit 51 - that just boggles my mind. Would be interesting (or really scary) to know what ever happened to him. I try to imagine what I would do if my own child was stabbing me - I'm at a loss.

    Here in FL, up in Jax, there's a case I've been following - 13 yr old killed his 2 year old brother and sexually assulted his 5 year old half brother. In this case, he had his own prior abuse and IMO mom holds a lot of the blame for leaving him alone with the 2 year old (he'd just broken the 2yr old's legs 2 weeks before the death) but still...13 He's currently the youngest FL juvenile to be charged as an adult. Police: 13-Year-Old Cristian Fernandez Killed 2-Year-Old Brother, Sexually Abused 5-Year-Old | wtsp.com

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    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lish View Post
    Spirit 51 - that just boggles my mind. Would be interesting (or really scary) to know what ever happened to him. I try to imagine what I would do if my own child was stabbing me - I'm at a loss.

    Here in FL, up in Jax, there's a case I've been following - 13 yr old killed his 2 year old brother and sexually assulted his 5 year old half brother. In this case, he had his own prior abuse and IMO mom holds a lot of the blame for leaving him alone with the 2 year old (he'd just broken the 2yr old's legs 2 weeks before the death) but still...13 He's currently the youngest FL juvenile to be charged as an adult. Police: 13-Year-Old Cristian Fernandez Killed 2-Year-Old Brother, Sexually Abused 5-Year-Old | wtsp.com
    I gave my child life. I would put mine down to save her, BUT no one...not even her....has the right to take mine on a whim.

    Like I have written in another thread...it comes down to "Nature vs. Nurture". There are horrible parents with good kids and good parents with horrible kids. A sociopath, IMO, is made. Something missing in their brains at birth. Sociopaths only care about themselves and anything they need to do to get what they want is right. No compassion or consideration for anyone outside of themselves. Not all sociopaths are killers....some are CEOs, politicians and many other forms. It is like the McDonald tirade.....late bed wetting, fire starter and killing little animals. Not all who have these are future serial killers, but all serial killers have it.

    A bad parent with a horrible kid is just disaster waiting for it's time.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

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    Member Array FLArmadillo's Avatar
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    Disturbing. And yes, as even a 10 year old, give me a knife or a gun, and I could have been just as dangerous as any 30 year old.

    And Lish, I'd end the threat. Cold, but what's the other option? Leave a sociopath child parentless?
    Spirit51 likes this.
    As we used to teach in the spook business, carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody - and he finds out about it - he may be very angry with you. -- Jeff Cooper

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    There's no saving such human detritus. I hope common sense prevails and there is no "juvie" justice. Such waste needs to be packed away in the garbage bins of our society until their last day.

    If juvies came at me with a hatchet, yes, I would be in fear for my life and I would draw and fire.
    tricolordad and Spirit51 like this.

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    Member Array tricolordad's Avatar
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    You guys should meet some of the neighbor kids. A few of them are bound to head to prison for a 187. My cat crossed into the cornfield between the house and their trailer park while hunting past fall and I lost a window in the hail of BBs coming from their little $30 CO2 Airguns. It was bad enough i sent the hound out there. We moved here 2 years ago, that place was full of cats, dogs, rabbits etc...now theyre all gone. When i see them in my yard, i bring the shotgun with while telling them to hit the road. Makes you wonder exactly how much parenting (or lack thereof) has to do with mental illness and criminal thinking in teenagers. I really miss that hound, she passed away a bit ago.
    Last edited by tricolordad; September 22nd, 2012 at 06:29 PM. Reason: Er....yup

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    Senior Member Array Dennis1209's Avatar
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    You hear and read about these kids doing heinous acts now and then when the media decides they want to report it, IMO.

    What really surprises me... Is watching programs like "Beyond Scared Straight", "Hard Time" and "Lock Up" on channels like MSNBC and Discovery channel. The jails are chocked full of juveniles who are gang-bangers, mentally defective, self mutilators, killers, rapists, home invaders, strong arm robbers, drug addicts etc.

    When I was a kid I know for a fact it wasn't this bad. Then again, most every kid came from a two parent family and knew better than to try drugs or test the parents authority. Two thirds of everyone I knew went to church on Sunday. Most everyone I associated with had manners and addressed elders with, yes sir, no sir, yes ma'am, no ma'am.

    With things progressing as bad as it is today, what will tomorrow bring?
    JDE101 and tropicoz like this.
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