Man Not Indicted for Shooting.

This is a discussion on Man Not Indicted for Shooting. within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; This is something new, have not seen this before. The "shooter" and his father went to the residence of someone in possession of a lawn ...

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Thread: Man Not Indicted for Shooting.

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    Man Not Indicted for Shooting.

    This is something new, have not seen this before.

    The "shooter" and his father went to the residence of someone in possession of a lawn mower that did not belong to him and to get him to return it. When negotiations broke down the guy produced a gun, ordered them off his property, waved the gun at the face of one confronting him. The other person pulled out his own pistol and shot the guy dead.

    Self-defense? Questionable but the Grand Jury says no indictment.

    All this over a lawn mower. Must have been one heck of a mower to say the least.

    UPDATE: Wheelersburg Man Killed during Lawnmower Argument, Suspect Not Indicted
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    An avoidable shooting in a matter that should have been handled by the police. Justifiable? The GJ has made that decision. I don't need to.
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Interesting... Apparently the GJ had one of the longest deliberations in their history over it.
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    An ongoing series of worse-than-the-last-one decision-making on the part of all parties involved. Walking around someone's home repeatedly beating on doors and windows, the occupants not responding or calling 911, continuously escalating tension while armed, the list goes on.
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    Member Array cbp210's Avatar
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    We had a simliar incident in Houston but involved a person shooting his neighbor over a loud music party. This person went to his neighbor property and shot him claiming to be attacked. This person was found guilty.

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    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    It's hard to make any kind of decision about how I feel about this without having all the facts. However, there's a couple things that come to my attention about this.

    The victim:
    -The guy should've paid the money he owed (that's not to say he deserved to be shot because of it, just that he should've paid his debts)
    -Don't point a gun at somebody and expect nothing to happen

    The Father/Son:
    -Banging on windows and air conditioning units is just ridiculous, and bordering on harassment. Doors are fine. You're supposed to knock on those.
    -Anybody ever heard of collections?
    -8:30pm to harass somebody about money owed? You come to me about anything business related after business hours at my home, and I'd probably be a little ticked, too. 8:30pm and my daughter's are already in bed sleeping.

    If I'm on somebody else's property causing problems and they point a gun at me and give me an opportunity to leave, I would just leave.
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    Member Array minimalbrat's Avatar
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    We do not, probably, have all the story but this is what we do have. The man and his son were on someones property for at least an hour. They started the confrontation. No this is not justifiable.

    Not sure how this got past the gj in Ohio you can not start the confrontation. Have to wonder who had money and who didn't.
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    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how it is in Ohio, but in GA the law states:

    (a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to defend himself or herself or a third person against such other's imminent use of unlawful force; however, except as provided in Code Section 16-3-23, a person is justified in using force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or a third person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

    (b) A person is not justified in using force under the circumstances specified in subsection (a) of this Code section if he:

    (1) Initially provokes the use of force against himself with the intent to use such force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant;

    O.C.G.A. 16-3-21
    It's an interesting clause, and probably a difficult one to prove in court, but it basically says that he's not justified using self defense if he provoked the incident WITH THE INTENT to "defend" himself.

    If the Ohio law says anything similar, that might be a reason why the GJ ruled the way they did. My guess is that the Staker's did not go to the victim's house with the intent to "defend" themselves over $700 dolalrs.

    (This is in no way me agreeing or disagreeing with the decision or the father/son's actions.)
    Last edited by pittypat21; September 26th, 2012 at 11:26 AM. Reason: Clarification
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    When negotiations broke down the guy produced a gun, ordered them off his property, waved the gun at the face of one confronting him. The other person pulled out his own pistol and shot the guy dead.

    Self-defense? Questionable ...
    The devil's in the details, and all we're going on is a news report.

    Assuming the people coming to ask questions and demand their property back were lily-white in their intentions and actions, then no threat of deadly violence against them would be justifiable.

    But there are a myriad of things that could have been said or done by either party that could justify the threat of force by the resident. We don't have his word on the matter.

    Still, after hearing everything claimed, the GJ believed that defense against unwarranted and unjustifiable threat of deadly force was appropriate in this case. Without knowing the details they had to evaluate, it's hard to make a call.

    All this over a lawn mower.
    Sounds like it was over the threat of death and resistance to that, actually.
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    OK I'm just assuming that they sold a mower and hadn't got paid all the money for it,so they go over "to collect",there is a reason for if you sell sumpin on payments you write up a contract and both sign it etc. if they violate it then you file a civil lawsuit.
    TX actually has language in their SD criteria that points out you cannot escalate a situation and then claim SD which is what this guy in Houston did
    We had a simliar incident in Houston but involved a person shooting his neighbor over a loud music party. This person went to his neighbor property and shot him claiming to be attacked. This person was found guilty.
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