TRAGIC: Father shoots own son in ski mask - Page 5

TRAGIC: Father shoots own son in ski mask

This is a discussion on TRAGIC: Father shoots own son in ski mask within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by atctimmy Yes others can learn from this but a "teachable moment" it isn't. You win Timmy....

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Thread: TRAGIC: Father shoots own son in ski mask

  1. #61
    Distinguished Member Array deadguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Yes others can learn from this but a "teachable moment" it isn't.
    You win Timmy.
    There's nothing like a funeral to make you feel alive


  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCDan View Post
    Anyone know what is happening with the father? Being that the shooting took place in a neighbor's house seems to make it tougher as a personal defense. I am not saying I agree or don't agree with the circumstance and result, rather many laws in many states revolve around protecting yourself and your personal property and are more forgiving if all this takes place in your home when a BG breaks in.
    Well, being unfamiliar with local laws in that area I don't know how will shake out he, the father, was in another's house. But he could claim - and it's likely true - he was acting to save another's life - and did in fact do so - at a horrible cost. But someone in your neighbors house - and we have reports it was his sister - with a ski-mask and a knife and a recent horrible rape in the area, I mean I'd say the father was there to save HER, not her property.

  3. #63
    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I find the thread title to be very misleading and judgmental.
    ??

    I wrote it.

    People are expressing their views on a horrible situation. We do have differences in how we look at it, but that's the reason these things gets posted. From reading different reactions, it makes you think - I think it makes one less judgmental and insular by sharing in a group.

    My view anyway... and why I posted.

    (I was careful in to make clear in my intro I'm not against anyone or taking a side, too early to take sides - and there are lessons here: one of them is to be sure before you shoot, and the other is to act when you are as certain as a human can be. I certainly hope for the father's sake it's the second. And, preliminary facts, including new ones just pointed out in the tread, indicate he is. I hope that's the way it continues to go for him. Sorry if the title was judgmental to you, I'm not. )

  4. #64
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by detective View Post
    (

    ??

    I wrote it.

    People are expressing their views on a horrible situation. We do have differences in how we look at it, but that's the reason these things gets posted. From reading different reactions, it makes you think - I think it makes one less judgmental and insular by sharing in a group.

    My view anyway... and why I posted.
    Exactly correct! I am no angel when it comes to disagreeing, but I find that I learn a great deal from the varied replies on this thread, regardless of whether we know all the facts or not. Face it--this forum is not the police and is not the prosecutor and is not the judge and jury--what we know means diddlesquat to the case, but, as a tragic story with many opinions, it becomes a useful informational tool as we consider our responsibilites as firearm owners.
    detective likes this.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by detective View Post
    (I was careful in to make clear in my intro I'm not against anyone or taking a side, too early to take sides - and there are lessons here: one of them is to be sure before you shoot, and the other is to act when you are as certain as a human can be. I certainly hope for the father's sake it's the second. And, preliminary facts, including new ones just pointed out in the tread, indicate he is. I hope that's the way it continues to go for him. Sorry if the title was judgmental to you, I'm not. )
    - Sorry, I'm not going to second guess anything if someone with a ski mask approaches me with a knife. The odds of that person being related to me are slim to none. The odds that being hesitant costing me my life or causing serious injury are much greater.
    JDE101 and oneshot like this.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote." ~ Benjamin Franklin

  6. #66
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    I don't know if it would have helped or not, but this is one reason my home defense pistol. Glock 19, has a rail light on it. I am surrounded by relatives, sister, nieces and nephews are all within a close distance. Sister lives 200 yards away, one nephew 100 yards away. I felt it was important to be able to clearly identify what I was considering taking a shot at. Since the weapon of choice during daylight would be my carry gun, the gun in the bedside safe needed the light on it.

    I don't know if the Father in this case had a light, or if it would have helped him to identify it was his son, or if that identification would have ended up making him a victim because he hesitated, but it doesn't change my mind about the importance of knowing what it is one is about to take a shot at.

    Fitch
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety), by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” by H. L. Mencken

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    The title certainly implies that the shooter acted hastily, and that the shootee wasn't really an assailant. Sounds like a biased rush to conclusions to me.
    Perhaps you're correct, might be some bias at the time too dunno - but right after the title I did explain the lessons: in a crisis, the two poles to try to be between are acting without certainty and the other: delaying action once you are certain from the evidence in front of you, which is as certain as you could get. We don't have the benefit of the investigation into all background facts before we are accosted.

    It's also clear in my posts within the thread that while all the facts aren't in yet, my sympathies would lie with the father and I've read more and more facts that hopefully will conclude he was justified.

    Early days still....

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    Quote Originally Posted by deadguy View Post
    You win Timmy.
    Thanks.


    I'm having a new Tshirt made, it says "ATCTIMMY...DEFENDER OF THE INTERNET!!!"

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    Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
    Richard M Nixon
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  10. #70
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Thanks.


    I'm having a new Tshirt made, it says "ATCTIMMY...DEFENDER OF THE INTERNET!!!"
    Regardless of the post, every time I see your avatar, I smile a little.
    Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
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  11. #71
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    Do you know where your kid is at at 1 am?

    I am saddened for the father and the family for their loss and that he has to live with this for the rest of his life.
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  12. #72
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fitch View Post
    I don't know if it would have helped or not, but this is one reason my home defense pistol. Glock 19, has a rail light on it. I am surrounded by relatives, sister, nieces and nephews are all within a close distance. Sister lives 200 yards away, one nephew 100 yards away. I felt it was important to be able to clearly identify what I was considering taking a shot at. Since the weapon of choice during daylight would be my carry gun, the gun in the bedside safe needed the light on it.

    I don't know if the Father in this case had a light, or if it would have helped him to identify it was his son, or if that identification would have ended up making him a victim because he hesitated, but it doesn't change my mind about the importance of knowing what it is one is about to take a shot at.

    Fitch
    First off, I absolutely understand your position and explanation for a light on the firearm. Having said that, let me provide some negative comments. 1) The chances that one of your relatives is running around with a mask and a knife in someone else's house, including your sister's house, is probably zilch to less than zilch---if that is a reason for having a light it is a very weak argument; 2) At night, one of my advantages in home defense is I know where I am in my house--it may be dark but I know where everything is and the BG does not--the light tells the BG exactly where I am, which, IMO, negates any advantage I have in my own home.

  13. #73
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  14. #74
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fitch View Post
    I don't know if it would have helped or not, but this is one reason my home defense pistol. Glock 19, has a rail light on it.

    I don't know if the Father in this case had a light, or if it would have helped him to identify it was his son, or if that identification would have ended up making him a victim because he hesitated ...
    Disagree, that it would have made a whit of difference in this case, given that the assailant was masked, armed, and apparently willing to kill (as evidenced by his manifest actions).

    Important to know your target, and what's beyond it, yes.

    But the person saw that the assailant was (a) masked and (b) made a violent approach with "shiny object" (apparently, a weapon) in hand. No additional info, really, is needed, whether lit by a greater amount of light or not. In this example, it seems sufficient info was known by the defender to realize a deadly threat was being enacted against him and justified stopping it.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  15. #75
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Is this really so hard to understand? IMO and that of SC law, "imminent danger" is the key, not stealing someone's "stuff", and in this case, on top of everything else, "someone else's" stuff. Yes you can say that the robbery/burglary is a felony and that translates under castle doctrine to imminent danger or you can say "I worked hard for my stuff and I'll be damned if someone is going to take it from me without a fight", but, in this case, IT WAS NOT EVEN HIS STUFF!!!. Tragic?--for sure. Avoidable?---definitely. Would he have known it was his kid if all this had happened at his house?---scenario does not really make sense but castle doctrine would protect him, as if that is what would be on his mind after he killed his kid. Unless I am actually confronted in my home (at night I would stay in my locked bedroom and let BGs have whatever of my INSURED AND REPLACEABLE STUFF--I am also insured but not replaceable so I am not going out to "do battle" for stuff--I am armed, I have called 911, I have activated garage open, I have activated car alarms and I will wait--come into bedroom, you die) imminent danger is not on the table.
    How can you be so sure that this was about stuff? especially in the heat of the moment. Elderly lady calls neighbor (actually her brother) and tells him someone is trying to break in. The brother does not know what the burgular wants to do. Could be rape or murder. That is the whole reason behind the castle doctrine. As law abiding citizens, we do not have the burden of determining criminals intentions when they invade our homes.
    This is definitely a tragedy. I can not imagine what the father is feeling. However, it was a legal shoot.
    oneshot likes this.

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