Hmmm: man shoots dog, loses...

This is a discussion on Hmmm: man shoots dog, loses... within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by suntzu Totally disagree. There are leash laws for a reason. There is an expectatation that you will not be assualted or inconvenienced ...

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Thread: Hmmm: man shoots dog, loses...

  1. #76
    Ex Member Array CaveJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Totally disagree. There are leash laws for a reason. There is an expectatation that you will not be assualted or inconvenienced by dogs running about. If someone has a legitmate phobia about dogs for whatever reason they shuld not have to be shut ins because people can not follow the law and keep their animals reigned in. I don't know all the details because the article only tells one side of the story.

    Bottom line the owners are partly responsible. Wouldn't this be a totally different conversation if the dog for some reason had a panic and actually attacked a person and caused injury.

    I am a runner as well as my wife. I have been tripped up by small and large dogs, been stalked by dogs, and have had dogs be overly aggressive. I did not need to shoot them but the owners are the ones that are letting situations like this develop. One guy told me to run in a different neighborhood if I don't like his dogs. Tha is just a wrong answer to have a law abiding pewrson to have to change their behaviour becuase of inept behaviour of a dog owner.
    Yeah, I can't side with the shooter. Like I said that cop shot that dog because it wanted to come check him out and rather than think, he killed it. He didn't give the guy a chance to restrain the dog because he warned him not to move. Worst part? Guy was at the wrong address.

    Is there a leash law where this one happened? Sounds like the dog was on his property and bolted before he could react, and the guy shouldn't have shot.

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  3. #77
    Senior Member Array theskunk's Avatar
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    People are buying junk yard dogs for home security. I was walking down a sidewalk, the neighbor had his dog on a leash, and the little ******* bit me. I had to get tetnus shots and everything else.

    The animal control officer said #1 carry a good stick, and #2 carry pepper spray. But it's the irrespondsible owners that are at fault.
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  4. #78
    Member Array DanDglassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theskunk View Post
    People are buying junk yard dogs for home security. I was walking down a sidewalk, the neighbor had his dog on a leash, and the little ******* bit me. I had to get tetnus shots and everything else.

    The animal control officer said #1 carry a good stick, and #2 carry pepper spray. But it's the irrespondsible owners that are at fault.
    If that had happened to me I would have had bad aim and hit the owner with the stick.
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  5. #79
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Totally disagree. There are leash laws for a reason. There is an expectatation that you will not be assualted or inconvenienced by dogs running about. If someone has a legitmate phobia about dogs for whatever reason they shuld not have to be shut ins because people can not follow the law and keep their animals reigned in. I don't know all the details because the article only tells one side of the story.

    Bottom line the owners are partly responsible. Wouldn't this be a totally different conversation if the dog for some reason had a panic and actually attacked a person and caused injury.

    I am a runner as well as my wife. I have been tripped up by small and large dogs, been stalked by dogs, and have had dogs be overly aggressive. I did not need to shoot them but the owners are the ones that are letting situations like this develop. One guy told me to run in a different neighborhood if I don't like his dogs. Tha is just a wrong answer to have a law abiding pewrson to have to change their behaviour becuase of inept behaviour of a dog owner.
    That's indisputable. Of course there are leash laws and of course people shouldn't be subjected to loose dogs sniffing around. It happens. Dogs don't read the statutes. The owner needs to pay a fine. The world ain't perfect. Doesn't make blowing away the neighbor's dog the right thing to do just because he dug out of his yard while his owner was gone and made a nuisance of himself.
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  6. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    Not even... Anyone that would kill a friendly domesticated pet is a sorry pig and don't deserve the right to carry a firearm and endanger others.
    I take it you saw this event? Failing that, no one here can judge the specifics of the circumstances based on a newspaper article, right or wrong.

    If people are going to jump to these kind of judgements, we can save a boatload of tax dollars by eliminating courthouses, prosecutors, public defenders and judges. Just print an article in the paper and people vote on the internet.

    The only thing that is known right now is the dog is dead and the owners are culpable. It's a sad story no matter how it turns out.
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  7. #81
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2700 View Post
    I take it you saw this event? Failing that, no one here can judge the specifics of the circumstances based on a newspaper article, right or wrong.

    If people are going to jump to these kind of judgements, we can save a boatload of tax dollars by eliminating courthouses, prosecutors, public defenders and judges. Just print an article in the paper and people vote on the internet.

    The only thing that is known right now is the dog is dead and the owners are culpable. It's a sad story no matter how it turns out.
    Actually we are an internet forum not a court of law. Eliminating any forum discussion except known facts would mean the OP should have been shortened to just read: "Dead dog, owners culpable".

  8. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    Actually we are an internet forum not a court of law. Eliminating any forum discussion except known facts would mean the OP should have been shortened to just read: "Dead dog, owners culpable".
    There is plenty of intelligent discussion here that does not pass judgment.

    If you are unable to recognize or do that, so be it, but most others are.
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  9. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Totally disagree. There are leash laws for a reason. There is an expectatation that you will not be assualted or inconvenienced by dogs running about. If someone has a legitmate phobia about dogs for whatever reason they shuld not have to be shut ins because people can not follow the law and keep their animals reigned in. I don't know all the details because the article only tells one side of the story.

    Bottom line the owners are partly responsible. Wouldn't this be a totally different conversation if the dog for some reason had a panic and actually attacked a person and caused injury.
    Owners are definitely partially at fault, IMO. You can't expect everyone to know your dog, its mannerisms, or when it might suddenly snap. These things do happen, and there's not always a tell-tale sign from the animal about what's to come. Not only that, but when a dog is rushing at you, and you are in fear for your safety, you only have a couple seconds (if that) to make a decision. and if you're in fear, you're in fight or flight. Two options to think about in a couple seconds. You don't have time to sit and have a discussion with yourself about what might actually be happening and what you should probably do.

    I have a german shepherd mix, and while I've never had any problems with him being hostile to anyone, he does like to bark. He'll let me know when anybody's too close to us (even if it's my neighbor across the street). He (so far) has shown that he wouldn't cause any harm, and generally all he does is stand his ground by my side and just inform me about a potential threat (well, I take everyone he growls at as a potential threat, that is. I have no idea if he does :P).

    He has gotten out of the fence a couple times, usually for a reason that I could have prevented, along with my much smaller and less intimidating dog, and they have been found roaming the neighborhood. If someday while they were out, the german shepherd mix got shot because he had ran up to somebody, I wouldn't blame that person a bit. I'd probably be ticked at first, he/she shot my dog after all, but I should've kept the dog fenced in, and I can't fault someone for being scared of an unknown german shepherd mix that's running at them.
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  10. #84
    Senior Member Array Happypuppy's Avatar
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    Hmmm: man shoots dog, loses...

    Quote Originally Posted by GunTrooper View Post
    I always carry a gun when I jog, and I usually carry pepper spray too. He spotted me from across the street, ran up to me, and walked around me in a circle as he went through his decision process... I cut loose with a long spray of pepper toward his face. He stopped and licked his chops. While he reconsidered, I got my Bodyguard 380 ready. Luckily, he ran off and left me alone.
    This is why I always have OC spray with me and if hiking a stick. Animal Control told me that due to the enhanced nasal system of canines it is even more affective on them than people. The dog will leave me alone, and perhaps remember getting sprayed....at least that's my plan I hope I do not have to try to find out its effectiveness.



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  11. #85
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2700 View Post
    There is plenty of intelligent discussion here that does not pass judgment. If you are unable to recognize or do that, so be it, but most others are.
    But wait....... Aren't you passing judgment on me/us for passing judgment on said event? Humm, to your answer that surly fixing to pop out; ahhh NO, I'm ah just sayin....... Well truth is, sure you are. You don't like my opinion on the matter that's fine cause I don't agree with yours either. Just call me the voice of the poor dead animal if you want. I said it once and I'll say it again. The guy was a pig for shooting the animal like he did, and if you were to take all the information provided in the story, you too should have been able to come to a similar conclusion, that the animal was well known as a friendly pet to the neighborhood.

    Let me answer the "where you there?" Crap... Yes, I was there; I was flying overhead when the poor animal saw the other dog being walked outside and said, HEY! There's a potential buddy walking out there. Please open the door so I can go visit. Please, please. Oh boy there's my chance... *Loser with a gun* Ahhh! Rabid dog! I gotta shoot it. BOOM! *poor animal* why, what did I do?

    For the record... I am a huge animal lover and always will be. So there. With that I'm done.......
    Last edited by gottabkiddin; October 27th, 2012 at 08:54 AM.
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  12. #86
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2700 View Post
    There is plenty of intelligent discussion here that does not pass judgment.

    If you are unable to recognize or do that, so be it, but most others are.
    Again, we are passing judgement on an internet forum. This is the only place I get to practice law.

  13. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    But wait....... Aren't you passing judgment on me/us for passing judgment on said event? Humm, to your answer that surly fixing to pop out; ahhh NO, I'm ah just sayin....... Well truth is, sure you are. You don't like my opinion on the matter that's fine cause I don't agree with yours either. Just call me the voice of the poor dead animal if you want. I said it once and I'll say it again. The guy was a pig for shooting the animal like he did, and if you were to take all the information provided in the story, you too should have been able to come to a similar conclusion, that the animal was well known as a friendly pet to the neighborhood.

    Let me answer the "where you there?" Crap... Yes, I was there; I was flying overhead when the poor animal saw the other dog being walked outside and said, HEY! There's a potential buddy walking out there. Please open the door so I can go visit. Please, please. Oh boy there's my chance... *Loser with a gun* Ahhh! Rabid dog! I gotta shoot it. BOOM! *poor animal* why, what did I do?

    For the record... I am a huge animal lover and always will be. So there. With that I'm done.......

    Publicly passing judgment on you how? Nice try at obfuscation. I'll get back to that.

    It's not about judgment, it about doing so based on emotions, not facts.

    What little is known here thus far is a newspaper article. Knowing how anti-gun the media is, it should come as no surprise that there exists a great likelihood that story is spun to make a gun owner look poorly. And while doing that, if they can make him look like a gun toting fanatic, all the better. The detailing of his, "vast number of weapons" is irrelevant to the facts of this event, but aligns with an attempt to spin the story.

    A great concern I would have if have had to defend myself from a lawful self-defense shooting (I'm not saying this is or isn't) is getting a juror like you. Someone who will ignore the facts and pass judgment based simply on their emotions. You say, "For the record... I am a huge animal lover and always will be." Well, I am too, but that has nothing to do with the facts of this case. Maybe one day you'll find yourself in that situation - where your freedom hangs in the balance and perhaps then you'll better understand the importance of facts, not emotions. And maybe on that day, you'll get jurors like yourself. Perhaps befittingly.

    Back to the accusations of my judgment of you. Were I, it wouldn't be base on what somebody told somebody at a bowling alley and they told me. It would be base on facts. Direct facts of your own words. You said, "if you were to take all the information provided in the story, you too should have been able to come to a similar conclusion." So here is a fact - You believe everything you read. Especially when it is known there is good likelihood that there is an addenda in the article and there is evidence of that in the article itself.
    Last edited by 2700; October 27th, 2012 at 03:14 PM. Reason: removed sentance
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  14. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    Again, we are passing judgement on an internet forum. This is the only place I get to practice law.
    Well counselor, you would be advised to first study the Rules of Evidence...
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  15. #89
    Senior Member Array theskunk's Avatar
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    Most dog attack victims are children.

  16. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    I've commented that charges like this can occur, to people who seem quick to say they'ld shoot any dog that comes running towards them "at all" ...... they've told me I'm nuts and "how justified" they are.......

    I hope they read this thread.
    Charges can and often do happen after any type of shooting. Even if shooting a dog is necessary, there will be high emotions running against the shooter. Ranchers will often discreetly kill dogs that are attacking their livestock out of fear of reprisals from dog owners that let them run wild in the first place.

    Sometimes dogs are aggressive, but the owners will never see that or admit to it. There are dog people that will react emotionally to the very idea of shooting a dog. We weren't there, which is why I will reserve judgement on this shooting. Dogs are a nuisance species when not controlled by their owners. I lived in the country for years, and we would get people from the city that would drop their dogs off to run feral. We would get livestock attacked. We would always have to be on our guard for being attacked by packs of dogs, and some of the dogs would show up starved and diseased. The people that abandonded their dogs are the very same people that would scream bloody murder if somebody shot their dog in self defense. They are certainly not dog's best friend. I love dog's as much as anybody, but I understand that they are animals, and are capable of being dangerous. Not only that, but a dog's life is not worth as much as a human's life. I have had to shoot dog's before. It is something that I despise doing, but if I have to I will. Once for a dog that was growling and coming at me and my children, and another time for a feral dog that while it wasn't acting aggresively at the time, it was severely diseased and would not come up to me for help. That last one was strictly putting the poor creature out of its misery. It wouldn't have lived long anyway, and I couldn't stand to see that poor animal suffer anymore.
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