Solution to gang member violence in Chicago?

This is a discussion on Solution to gang member violence in Chicago? within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I'm thinking small nutron bomb in selected areas would solve a lot of the gang issues....

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  1. #16
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    I'm thinking small nutron bomb in selected areas would solve a lot of the gang issues.
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  3. #17
    Member Array tet4's Avatar
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    Get rid of govt housing.

    Privitize the Chicago school system with a voucher system.

    Pass ccw laws so law abiding citizens have a chance to survive when they rat out the gang members.
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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by grellopc View Post
    Stopping gangs in Chicago is possible, but not how they're going about it. Its not about taking away guns, is about taking away disparity.

    Chances are these kids are raised by a single parent (most likely mom), usually very hard working but living in poverty. When they're young, that's just the way it is.. You're poor, and there's nothing you can do about it. As they get older they want to or at least can do something about it. I remember being 10, 11, 12 and so on. I was more than capable to work. I tried my damndest to work. but No one would hire a 10 year old. It was "illegal " for me to work.
    all I could do is wash cars during summer, rake leaves in fall, and shovel show during winter.
    I couldn't get my first "honest" job til 16, and even then I needed a work permit. By then my by-weekly check rarely hit $100. when on a heavy snow day I could clear that much in 6 hours.

    Now I understand the value of having an honest job, but lets be real. These schools are crap. They don't teach money or life skills. And the allure of a honest job paying 5-6 an hour part time is not going to help pull the out of a gang.

    robberies, burglaries, and selling drugs are very, very profitable. Lets say the power is off and it cost $600 to reconnect. how long would it take for one of them to find a job, get hired, earn atleast $600 take-home, and get paid, vs robbing 3-4 people that night and having the bill paid by morning with enough left over to get some groceries.


    When it becomes earlier to make money than it is to steal it. Gang problems will go away.
    There are may people in similar situations that have not turned to a life of crime.

    As for "disparity," there are many people that have all that they need and turn to a life of crime.

    And it is already easier to make money than it is to steal it. Unfortunately most criminals are too dumb or ignorant to realize this. Think long term, not in terms of days.

    There will always be criminals.
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    Legalize and tax drugs. Remove their main source of income and suddenly being a gang banger becomes less lucrative. Lets be honest, the reasons for kids getting into that life is the promise of easy cash, remove that from the equation and your gang problem starts to immediately get smaller.
    Criminals find ways to exploit, whether the goods are legal or illegal. Note also electronics are legal. Yet there are many crimes of theft of electronics.

    "Legalizing" drugs would solve nothing. It will just remove one opportunity, and the criminals will find or create another.

  6. #20
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    Well, since they can't have guns I guess we have to think of another way. Get rope and string the darn thugs up. No guns, no hugs left. No really, there are many problems and drugs or gangs aren't all of it. You have the hard working single mother at work doing what she can to support her child. She tries to raise her child right but who is with that child when she is at work? I think sometimes the kids want family and acceptance and the older ones use this need to get them to do what they want. They cycle goes on and on.
    Last edited by minimalbrat; September 29th, 2012 at 11:00 PM.
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    There are may people in similar situations that have not turned to a life of crime.

    As for "disparity," there are many people that have all that they need and turn to a life of crime.

    And it is already easier to make money than it is to steal it. Unfortunately most criminals are too dumb or ignorant to realize this. Think long term, not in terms of days.

    There will always be criminals.
    I can remember a time, when I was first out on my own, I didn't have heat for most of the winter because I couldn't afford the 200 deposit they wanted. I saved and saved a few dollars at a time until I had the money to get the heat turned on. I guess some think it would have been ok to go out and rob a few people so I could have heat. Hmmm, I thought it was best to wrap up in blankets and try to stay warm.
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    Criminals find ways to exploit, whether the goods are legal or illegal. Note also electronics are legal. Yet there are many crimes of theft of electronics.

    "Legalizing" drugs would solve nothing. It will just remove one opportunity, and the criminals will find or create another.
    Alcohol is legal, yep there are still people that steal it and commit illegal activities with it...cant stop that...but that number is WAY down from prohibition era violence and crime related to alcohol. Prohibition alone proves you wrong if you ask me.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowman View Post
    Soulution: Patriot Act all gangs in America as what they are "Domestic Terrorist".....
    Be careful what you wish for as that's what Hitler did, sort of. He controlled the press enough to get away with encouraging the criminal gangs on one hand, and running on the promise to bring volence under control on the other. He gained office, and called his violent followers together to celebrate - on the "night of the long knives".

    I'm concerned that we might be getting set up up for a backlash candidate. The last few dozen candidates, both parties, have been mostly wet rags. Is this so we hail a HEEEE-row when one shows up to save the day?

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    Alcohol is legal, yep there are still people that steal it and commit illegal activities with it...cant stop that...but that number is WAY down from prohibition era violence and crime related to alcohol. Prohibition alone proves you wrong if you ask me.
    I'll rephrase. The criminals will always be criminals. They will rest in the the outer contours of our society. They will find ways to make money and victimize citizens. If drugs are legalized, then yes, "drug related" crime would likely go down. Some "other related" crime would rise to fill the void.
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by grellopc View Post
    Stopping gangs in Chicago is possible, but not how they're going about it. Its not about taking away guns, is about taking away disparity.

    Chances are these kids are raised by a single parent (most likely mom), usually very hard working but living in poverty. When they're young, that's just the way it is.. You're poor, and there's nothing you can do about it. As they get older they want to or at least can do something about it. I remember being 10, 11, 12 and so on. I was more than capable to work. I tried my damndest to work. but No one would hire a 10 year old. It was "illegal " for me to work.
    all I could do is wash cars during summer, rake leaves in fall, and shovel show during winter.
    I couldn't get my first "honest" job til 16, and even then I needed a work permit. By then my by-weekly check rarely hit $100. when on a heavy snow day I could clear that much in 6 hours.

    Now I understand the value of having an honest job, but lets be real. These schools are crap. They don't teach money or life skills. And the allure of a honest job paying 5-6 an hour part time is not going to help pull the out of a gang.

    robberies, burglaries, and selling drugs are very, very profitable. Lets say the power is off and it cost $600 to reconnect. how long would it take for one of them to find a job, get hired, earn atleast $600 take-home, and get paid, vs robbing 3-4 people that night and having the bill paid by morning with enough left over to get some groceries.


    When it becomes earlier to make money than it is to steal it. Gang problems will go away.
    It will NEVER be easier to make money than it is to steal it. Not all poor people turn into thugs. Disparity is part of life. You want a better life? Work harder. Your neighborhood sucks? Move. Sounds to me like you were a hard worker as a child. I applaud that, but don't fool yourself into thinking everyone is like you. Those gangs are NOT full of kids who tried for years and years to get an "honest job" but couldn't find one. They are kids who take the easy way out. Gang problems will always be around. Because there will always be criminal types who prey on the weakness and despair of the people around them.
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  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2jlking View Post
    It will NEVER be easier to make money than it is to steal it. Not all poor people turn into thugs. Disparity is part of life. You want a better life? Work harder. Your neighborhood sucks? Move. Sounds to me like you were a hard worker as a child. I applaud that, but don't fool yourself into thinking everyone is like you. Those gangs are NOT full of kids who tried for years and years to get an "honest job" but couldn't find one. They are kids who take the easy way out. Gang problems will always be around. Because there will always be criminal types who prey on the weakness and despair of the people around them.
    All this happens at such a young age for these kids. With no real role models or parents, these kids get sucked in at the age of 10 and under. It's all they know. It's a cycle that some can break and most do not.

    You can take the boy out of ghetto but you can't take the ghetto out of the boy!
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  13. #27
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    I'll rephrase. The criminals will always be criminals. They will rest in the the outer contours of our society. They will find ways to make money and victimize citizens. If drugs are legalized, then yes, "drug related" crime would likely go down. Some "other related" crime would rise to fill the void.
    They will find other income sources, but none so profitable as drugs.

  14. #28
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    Some of you need to watch the epilogue to Goodfellas again, the part where Henry Hill (Ray Liotta) explains what the FBI could never figure out about the motivation and mentality of mobsters.

    Money is not the primary motive.
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  15. #29
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    Remember these kids are 10-16 years old. They can't move on their own. Think if when you were first on your own, with no heat, and had a 10 year old child. That child can't say "screw you dad, I'm moving out! " They're powerless.

  16. #30
    Member Array Roon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    I'll rephrase. The criminals will always be criminals. They will rest in the the outer contours of our society. They will find ways to make money and victimize citizens. If drugs are legalized, then yes, "drug related" crime would likely go down. Some "other related" crime would rise to fill the void.
    I disagree, for what you are suggesting to be true people would need to be born criminals. The majority of "criminals" get into crime for the easy money, you remove that incentive and you remove a lot of "criminals" from the system.

    There is no equilibrium of crime...when one type of crime goes down another rises...that just doesn't happen. If that were the case, all of the prohibition related crime that went away should have resulted in a rise elsewhere...that didn't happen. What historical facts do you have to back up your theory?

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