Solution to gang member violence in Chicago?

This is a discussion on Solution to gang member violence in Chicago? within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by jumpwing Some of you need to watch the epilogue to Goodfellas again, the part where Henry Hill (Ray Liotta) explains what the ...

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Thread: Solution to gang member violence in Chicago?

  1. #31
    Member Array Roon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpwing View Post
    Some of you need to watch the epilogue to Goodfellas again, the part where Henry Hill (Ray Liotta) explains what the FBI could never figure out about the motivation and mentality of mobsters.

    Money is not the primary motive.
    Ahh yes, a fictional movie written by some dude in hollywood. You really think that is a good source to prove a point?

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    I do not have a solution for what is wrong in Chicago. I really do not care. Its obamas problem, he will take care of it......
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    I disagree, for what you are suggesting to be true people would need to be born criminals. The majority of "criminals" get into crime for the easy money, you remove that incentive and you remove a lot of "criminals" from the system.

    There is no equilibrium of crime...when one type of crime goes down another rises...that just doesn't happen. If that were the case, all of the prohibition related crime that went away should have resulted in a rise elsewhere...that didn't happen. What historical facts do you have to back up your theory?
    Well, the rise of crime related to other illegal substances, some that were already present at the end of prohibition and some that have been invented since.

    Also, are you proposing that crime rates today are lower than they were back in the 1920's? I'm not sure about that.

    As for "easy money" - here's my point. If you remove one avenue for "easy money" the criminal will find or invent another one. It's simply unintended consequences. I am NOT making an argument for or against legalizing drugs. What I am arguing is that simple "cause and effect" view is just that- simplistic.
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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillep Harding View Post
    They will find other income sources, but none so profitable as drugs.
    The ingenuity of even the common criminal may surprise you. The criminal should not be underestimated.

  6. #35
    Senior Member Array GeorgiaDawg's Avatar
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    Gangs are very entrepreneurial. They operate like businesses with their "employees" supported by firepower. They go after the most lucrative transactions to keep their organizations humming along, whether that be drugs, prostitution, trafficking stolen goods, or anything else that will net the most money. In addition to being a "business", they are supported by a union-esque atmosphere where each member supports each other, giving everyone a place of belonging and family.

    Making drugs and prostitution legal won't defeat gangs. They will just find something else that they can do to make money. Prohibition was very profitable for the gang-like mafia, but legalizing booze again didn't put them away.

    Harsher sentences for crimes committed by gang-members, more operations targeting gang activities, and empowering citizens to defend themselves are things that can help the situation. I don't think this is a problem that has a solution. I think you can make it better, but not fix it completely. As long as poor, young boys are looking for money and a strong peer group that makes them feel like they belong, there will be a place for gangs.
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  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by grellopc View Post
    Stopping gangs in Chicago is possible, but not how they're going about it. Its not about taking away guns, is about taking away disparity.

    Chances are these kids are raised by a single parent (most likely mom), usually very hard working but living in poverty. When they're young, that's just the way it is.. You're poor, and there's nothing you can do about it. As they get older they want to or at least can do something about it. I remember being 10, 11, 12 and so on. I was more than capable to work. I tried my damndest to work. but No one would hire a 10 year old. It was "illegal " for me to work.
    all I could do is wash cars during summer, rake leaves in fall, and shovel show during winter.
    I couldn't get my first "honest" job til 16, and even then I needed a work permit. By then my by-weekly check rarely hit $100. when on a heavy snow day I could clear that much in 6 hours.

    Now I understand the value of having an honest job, but lets be real. These schools are crap. They don't teach money or life skills. And the allure of a honest job paying 5-6 an hour part time is not going to help pull the out of a gang.

    robberies, burglaries, and selling drugs are very, very profitable. Lets say the power is off and it cost $600 to reconnect. how long would it take for one of them to find a job, get hired, earn atleast $600 take-home, and get paid, vs robbing 3-4 people that night and having the bill paid by morning with enough left over to get some groceries.


    When it becomes earlier to make money than it is to steal it. Gang problems will go away.
    I really didn't expect anyone to make excuses for these little buckets of crap, but there you are.

    So you think that society is to blame? Try blaming the adult buckets of crap for having kids they don't raise like parents should and not teaching them to be civilized and legally productive.

    You are justifying their actions....what is with that? Do you really think that they want to start working as youngsters? There are many kids who come from dysfunctional parenting that DO go on to get jobs and live productive LEGAL lives.

    I didn't really expect any solutions...because frankly I don't think there is any out side of letting them kill each other out. I am more concerned with their victims and future victims. They should have the right to protect themselves...but Chicago doesn't let them. Now THAT is sad.

    I just didn't expect anyone to give excuses.
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  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    I really didn't expect anyone to make excuses for these little buckets of crap, but there you are.

    So you think that society is to blame? Try blaming the adult buckets of crap for having kids they don't raise like parents should and not teaching them to be civilized and legally productive.

    You are justifying their actions....what is with that? Do you really think that they want to start working as youngsters? There are many kids who come from dysfunctional parenting that DO go on to get jobs and live productive LEGAL lives.

    I didn't really expect any solutions...because frankly I don't think there is any out side of letting them kill each other out. I am more concerned with their victims and future victims. They should have the right to protect themselves...but Chicago doesn't let them. Now THAT is sad.

    I just didn't expect anyone to give excuses.
    Well said!

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoGunn View Post
    This is the beginning of the total breakdown of society when people feel that just because of "who" they are, or "how" their predecessors were treated are now entitled to just do anything but work for a living. I say this at the great risk of sounding racist, but if something is true, then it's true all over.

    They feel as if the whole world owes them something for wrongs and sins of the past. How does one combat that mentality? It is difficult when they are taught to behave that way because it is revenge against those who they wrong them on a daily basis. Many of these gang bangers know only violence and abhorrent behaviour because they have lost hope and will resort to anything to get what they want. However, most of the time their activities target their own neighbourhoods and people.

    Is killing them off a solution? Let's pray not, even though it sounds like a plan, that won't stop or cure the problem, it will just make other want to take their place and hit back at the authorities who did this.

    There may be no easy answer to the problem, and it is not just an urban one, it is beginning to creep out of the inner cities into suburban America.
    Your last sentence says it all. A couple of decades ago that may have sounded racist, but today it is just a fact. I live in a small town and see wastes of live who think that living off the government and illegal activities is their norm. These people are white.

    How goes Chicago with this problem today is how the problem will be stopped in other areas in the future? At least I know where I live I an use lethal force to protect myself, my home and my family (and the local criminals know this too).
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  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    Open gangbanger tag (kinda like a deer tag, but leave it for the city to clean up). Have the CPD gang unit post known and convicted gang members online...

    Seriously...I hate, loathe and despise gang bangers.
    We came up with that concept a few months ago. Teams from different cities. Fans behind bullet proof glass. The Chicago Banger against the Kansas City Lowlifes. The one who wins goes on to face the Los Angles Machos....so on and so forth.

    Could give NFL a run for their money.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tet4 View Post
    Get rid of govt housing.

    Privitize the Chicago school system with a voucher system.

    Pass ccw laws so law abiding citizens have a chance to survive when they rat out the gang members.
    Congrats. Those are common sense ideas. (Besides taking the money making away from drugs). Those would make a great start.

    But I do have to agree...with drugs not a income...they would find other illegal activities.

    I think the best we can hope for is to cut it down.....probably by letting them cut themselves down.

    I just think that the law abiding, productive members of society have a right to defend themselves from it.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
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  13. #42
    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    Ahh yes, a fictional movie written by some dude in hollywood. You really think that is a good source to prove a point?
    I also once saw a fictional movie written by some dude in Hollywood that asserted the United States had troops in Vietnam in 1968. Bogus, you say? Do you really think it's an effective debating technique to ignore the supposition (money is usually not the primary motive) and go straight for discrediting a movie I satirically referenced?

    Suggesting that "easy money" is the root of most career criminal behavior is pretty short-sighted. I'm curious what sort of hard-data research YOU have to support this.
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  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Add 1400 more police, yeah, I can see that happening, and then what? Build more prisons to handle the thousands of additional criminals the 1400 new cops will arrest. Oh, and we will need more court rooms and judges to try those who are arrested. The city is close to broke now, so how will they ever pay for all this? The logistics say that the problem is unsolvable. It's like trying to stop speeders only more difficult. We have anarchy on the roads and anarchy in the gang infested areas of the cities. No matter what side of the problem you approach it from, the answers defy reason, Usually because of the enormous amounts of money required to do anything but give lip service to prevent law abiding people from fleeing the city.

    The reality of the situation probably lies in what has been suggested, that is declaring the area an urban terrorist stronghold, bringing in the national guard and suspending due process for known gang-bangers. Prison sentences don't stop gang activity. It just moves it indoors where they get 3 hots and a cot until they get out and go on with business as usual. Somewhere along the line, the leaders, recruiters and more active members have to be taken out, permanently. It's drastic, proportional and necessary, and the only real solution.

  15. #44
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    how to do you fix a problem when the mindset is this............


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  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonker1986 View Post
    how to do you fix a problem when the mindset is this............


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