"Your conceal carry gun doesn’t make me safer"

This is a discussion on "Your conceal carry gun doesn’t make me safer" within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I don't really care if he feels safe. I don't carry a gun for his safety, I carry it for MINE....

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Thread: "Your conceal carry gun doesn’t make me safer"

  1. #46
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    I don't really care if he feels safe. I don't carry a gun for his safety, I carry it for MINE.
    Bubbiesdad likes this.
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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Folks, I just spoke thru e mail with Mr Madden. He is not anti gun or anything like that.

    I explained to him how many folks who are gun enthusiasts are actually trained and how, from my position as an LEO, are an asset to the community. I also explained that those such as you here, know, and understand the law as it pertains to you, and only carry for your SD.

    He responded as an honorable gentleman and said that I gave him some things to think about that he had not considered, but also stated, ( and I agree), that the once in a while paper puncher may have shot some innocent people.

    But I came away from the conversation with the impression that he is a pro gun man.
    I'm not being argumentative, but am genuinely curious about the once in awhile. Are there documented instances of paper punchers initiating gunfights and hitting bystanders? I know it happens in the 'hood all the time, but those aren't typically law-abiding armed citizens defending the flock.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  4. #48
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    Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin are average people who ended up in the lime-light through no effort of their own. That's what makes them outstanding.

    "If I wuz thar?" Depends on where and how far. If he he started shooting near where I was sitting, obviously there would be few people between us and none behind him (recall he started from a corner in the front of the theater, a horrible place to sit to watch a movie on the big screen). If I was in the far corner of the theater, I'd vacate, no question. The rest is all "it depends on the situation". I can see some where I'd risk a 50 yard shot, and some where I'd not risk a 10 yard shot. Sure hate to be where I had to choose, though. Every argument made about how bad the visibility is also applies to him, and the muzzle flash is right in front of him instead of many yards away.

  5. #49
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    Once again, I think it's clear that there are no absolutes. I can not present any of the precious documentation, graphs, case studies, or other " evidence" that so many people insist on as " proof".

    I am just relaying my conversation with the man who wrote this piece, and my take on it based upon his response.

    His assessment , was based on his thoughts at the time on the subject. He now has more information to digest, and had he have been informed prior of training available or the high degree that SOME private citizens can use firearms, he may not have made some of the statements.

    But I do agree with him on some of his opinion. There are some people with firearms, that I would rather not have them shoot anywhere near me.

    Noone here became overnight experts, so let's not act like it. What we know is a specialized thing comprised of years of learning, and let's not forget, not all people in this country share a passion or interest in firearms and SD like the people here, which is a minority in the grand scheme of things.

    The very best approach for this type of misinformation is not to spout off and vent among the group, but to very cordially contact people, show them we are reasonable, educated, and fill in the blanks for them. Often times, they get a different perspective when they get the full information.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  6. #50
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    Maybe he's only "sorta" gun.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  7. #51
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    He's never actually seen LEO's qualify (and I did that w/o an "a" or "an").

  8. #52
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    I have to agree with many others, I am not a cop it's not my responsibility to "protect and serve" other citizens. I got my CCW permit to protect me and the wife due to getting older and not physically able to fight off offenders. We travel alot and I don't want us to become victims if I can help it. As it is, if I had to use my gun I'd probably end up in a big legal battle just for protecting myself/wife. I've been thinking about getting insurance to help cover my ass, just in case. If you have a flat tire someone may help you change it, that a free serice, but who's going to help you defend youself for free if you have to use your gun? Especially if a bystander is wounded or heaven forbid killed? No one is going to give you the keys to the city. Most people today sue cities and their police departments for police involved shootings.

  9. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arborigine View Post
    Where did you find this trash?
    I saw this on a good web site called the gun wire.

  10. #54
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    JMO, but the guy isn't worth the time it would take to type out my opinion on the subject. I'm glag you gave the link so I could check out the guys mug. In the event he's being held up and, or assaulted and I happen upon it I can ID him and avoid the urge to assist during his moment of need. Besides, there are, and have been plenty of instances where armed civilians did make a huge difference, so who's he and what makes his opinion so special; nobody and nothing for me, so nuff said.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Once again, I think it's clear that there are no absolutes. I can not present any of the precious documentation, graphs, case studies, or other " evidence" that so many people insist on as " proof".

    I am just relaying my conversation with the man who wrote this piece, and my take on it based upon his response.

    His assessment , was based on his thoughts at the time on the subject. He now has more information to digest, and had he have been informed prior of training available or the high degree that SOME private citizens can use firearms, he may not have made some of the statements.

    But I do agree with him on some of his opinion. There are some people with firearms, that I would rather not have them shoot anywhere near me.

    Noone here became overnight experts, so let's not act like it. What we know is a specialized thing comprised of years of learning, and let's not forget, not all people in this country share a passion or interest in firearms and SD like the people here, which is a minority in the grand scheme of things.

    The very best approach for this type of misinformation is not to spout off and vent among the group, but to very cordially contact people, show them we are reasonable, educated, and fill in the blanks for them. Often times, they get a different perspective when they get the full information.
    I didn't ask for graphs, case studies or other evidence, just a for instance or two. Granting an invalid point in one's argument does not dispel that point, but rather reinforces it. Similarly, mischaracterizing a question does nothing to answer it, and may alienate someone who otherwise agrees with you.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Folks, I just spoke thru e mail with Mr Madden. He is not anti gun or anything like that. I explained to him how many folks who are gun enthusiasts are actually trained and how, from my position as an LEO, are an asset to the community. I also explained that those such as you here, know, and understand the law as it pertains to you, and only carry for your SD.He responded as an honorable gentleman and said that I gave him some things to think about that he had not considered, but also stated, ( and I agree), that the once in a while paper puncher may have shot some innocent people.But I came away from the conversation with the impression that he is a pro gun man.
    Thanks for taking the time and effort to contact the guy and speak intelligently for us; I for one appreciate it. I did perceive the guy as a anti gun guy by his article and it's good to know he's just a little biased regarding his opinion of the everyday armed citizen and not totally bashing us for carrying. Maybe with your help and that of a few others that take the time to educate him on the subject, he can learn to overcome his biased opinion. Maybe; I won't be holding my breath though...
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    Thanks for taking the time and effort to contact the guy and speak intelligently for us; I for one appreciate it. I did perceive the guy as a anti gun guy by his article and it's good to know he's just a little biased regarding his opinion of the everyday armed citizen and not totally bashing us for carrying. Maybe with your help and that of a few others that take the time to educate him on the subject, he can learn to overcome his biased opinion. Maybe; I won't be holding my breath though...
    Reckon he will write a retraction?
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Reckon he will write a retraction?
    I seriously doubt it....
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  15. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I didn't ask for graphs, case studies or other evidence, just a for instance or two. Granting an invalid point in one's argument does not dispel that point, but rather reinforces it. Similarly, mischaracterizing a question does nothing to answer it, and may alienate someone who otherwise agrees with you.
    I agree, and apologize to you if I came on strong, but that's my nature, and as much as I try, I can't change who I am, although I still try.

    Having said that, I never really gave a damn about getting agreements. But I think much is hidden in written word that is misunderstood, but would be conveyed properly thru personal conversation.

    Now, I don't know how much of a difference this made in this guys outlook. However, he did convey to me that my response has given him alot to chew on. We shall see. But I suspect that there are those who have only been subjected to one side of the issue, and it may be a simple matter of giving them the other side, in a reasonable , unintimidating and calm rational way.
    And then of course, there are those that will listen to neither.
    Mike1956 and FTG-05 like this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  16. #60
    Member Array owgem's Avatar
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    "Your conceal carry gun doesn’t make me safer"

    Well then, get your own!
    rigel42 and wingryder like this.

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