"Your conceal carry gun doesn’t make me safer"
This is a discussion on "Your conceal carry gun doesn’t make me safer" within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Hey Terry, thanks for showing-up. It's shows the kinda' stones that most of us respect around here. I've changed my mind, I will NOT throw ...
October 4th, 2012 02:53 PM
Hey Terry, thanks for showing-up. It's shows the kinda' stones that most of us respect around here. I've changed my mind, I will NOT throw you at my assailants. You are welcome to duck behind me if the situation necessitates. To the rest of my DC amigos, you have my absolute permission as well as my complete encouragement to repeatedly SHOOT any criminal actively seeking to seriously harm me or those I love. Please exercise your best technique, accuracy & judgement. I will extend to you the same consideration & courtesy. As I am inordinately serious about staying on this side...of the grass.
There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.
October 4th, 2012 04:01 PM
Like the others Im glad you stopped by. I understand your opinion will not change and I respect that. However, I take exception with your above statement. You see, most of us here train more than the LEOs. We work harder at the pistol craft than they do. We put our selves thru extreme stress and adrenaline induced situations. the pressure you speak off is as new to an officer as it is to a civilian. If you would have practiced getting off the X and throwing your football from a young age, you would be able to throw a pinpoint pass with the Giants D line coming at you.
My point was, is, and will continue to be this. I can stand in a field and throw a football 50 yards. I can put it on target at 50 yards 8 or 9 times out of 10 throws. This isn’t a metaphor I can do this as I have coached and repeat this often. I can tell you unequivocally however that I can’t do this if the entire defensive line of the NY Giants is bearing down on me. It will quickly go from pinpoint accuracy to “duck and chuck”. Pressure changes every game and range scores are irrelevant to real life.
Can I quantify this with statistics? Nope, I can’t but my better judgment and life experience tells me this is so.
Don"t let stupid be your skill set....
And Shepards we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee,
Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, So that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command,
And we shall flow a river forth to Thee, And teeming with souls shall it ever be,
October 4th, 2012 04:03 PM
Or at least the Jets D line...
I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
October 4th, 2012 04:49 PM
Tx_expat pretty much covered what I was going to post but let me add this: If you're right that the accuracy of a defender goes down in a stressfull situation such as being fired upon then doesn't this also apply to the attacker?
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October 4th, 2012 05:27 PM
I'm sure it would play some part but there are a few distinct differences. First off, the offensive shooter (at least in the Aurora case) wasn't shooting at specific targets, so any hit is a good hit from his perspective, whereas the defensive shooter is going to have the assailant as the only viable target. So I guess what I'm saying is that the bad guy's hit/miss ratio is unimportant on a specific target basis because it doesn't matter if a specific shot misses one person and hits another. Secondly, there are many factors behind what would drive any person to commit such an act but it's pretty safe to assume that they aren't thinking in a "normal" manner. Add to that, the fact that they choose the time, place and course of action, and you have a recipe for someone who probably isn't going to be in the same mental state that a "normal" person who is tossed into a defensive shooting situation would be.
Originally Posted by nazshooter
October 4th, 2012 10:02 PM
I wouldn't call most LEO's as ever being highly trained with their firearms,it never fails some people think just because you carry a tool every day you actually can use it,I used a hammer every day when I worked as a carpenter,I still managed to hit my thumb occassionally
7 Yards to 15 Yard – 4.2%”This seems to indicate that the hit rate for highly trained officers is 15-25 percent.
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
October 4th, 2012 10:35 PM
Not to get off topic, but I feel this needs to be said.
Every once in a while this topic comes up of civilian weapons skill vs LE. Most civilians who are serious about training and CCW are, to their credit, very competent indeed with the weapon of their choice. And pride in what we do is a natural human thing. Let's face it, if you have an ounce of testosterone, you will engage in chest beating on occasion.
However, the one thing most fail to take into account, is the ability to work and make decisions under pressure, where the use of weapons are concerned. A LE may not actually use his firearm in the normal course of duty, but there are many times the weapon is drawn with the anticipation of using it, accompanied by a real adrenaline dump and all that goes with it. This is not induced by a FOF training in a controlled environment, it is genuinely real, and might be simulated, but never duplicated.
Why? Because when you walk up on a car in the middle of no where, in the dark late at night, the danger is real. You know if the worst case scenario happens you are not going to get back in your car, with a few welts from plastic pellets on your body and go home.
Most LE go thru situations like this every single day. Their emotions are tempered over time, and the mental preparation is cemented.
Training is good, don't get me wrong, but do not fool yourself into thinking that just because you read guns n animosity magazine, and spend alot of money to learn alot of arguably relevant training, that you are better prepared to handle things than a seasoned LE.
Because it's not the skill with the firearm that's the defining difference, it's the mental conditioning that only comes with getting too close to real fire.
" Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight"
October 4th, 2012 11:02 PM
Couldn't agree with you more, gman...
A cop that deals with the real threat of death every week, on the job, has a level of real life experience that his training cannot infuse.
Most LEOs don't run into such threats daily. Some may, weekly, some never do.
Those that do, even once, in real life, have a level of experience even the best trained civilian has never truly achieved. Unless he/she has been in a life or death situation involving arms.
Some things come very close to the real deal, else our current military wouldn't have the success they do on the battlefield, even fresh out of boot.
They, and well trained civilians, can fall back on their training, and prevail. That experience bolsters the training, and in some cases, even corrects shortcomings (disparities from reality) of the training.
It could be worse!
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