"Your conceal carry gun doesn’t make me safer"

"Your conceal carry gun doesn’t make me safer"

This is a discussion on "Your conceal carry gun doesn’t make me safer" within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Summary: This reporter claims that conceal carry types are WyattEarp/Walter Mitty types. That stats prove you shoot more bystanders than criminals. And that a person ...

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Thread: "Your conceal carry gun doesn’t make me safer"

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    Senior Member Array theskunk's Avatar
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    "Your conceal carry gun doesn’t make me safer"

    Summary:

    This reporter claims that conceal carry types are WyattEarp/Walter Mitty types. That stats prove you shoot more bystanders than criminals. And that a person with a gun at the Aurora theater couldn't have done anything.




    Snippets

    I have to admit it pains me to hear of a massacre like the one in Colorado happening, and the first thing many like to argue is that people in the theater would have been safer if there were more liberal laws allowing licensed owners to carry their guns. In other words, if someone else in that theater had a gun many people may not have died. We will never know for sure, but statistics tell us that, other people shooting as well is probably a recipe for disaster.

    According to the coalition, “in 1992 the overall police hit potential was 17%.

    Where distances could be determined, the hit percentages at distances under 15 yards were:
    Less than 3 Yards — 28%
    3 Yards to 7 Yards — 11%
    7 Yards to 15 Yard – 4.2%”
    This seems to indicate that the hit rate for highly trained officers is 15-25 percent. That ratio has been pretty consistent for the last 30 years according to multiple studies. That means they have a 75 percent chance or better of missing. This is not an indictment of the police as they do amazing work, but rather the inherent unreliability of a shooter in a pressure situation.

    The Virginia Coalition of Police and Deputy Sheriffs put out some interesting statistics regarding handgun accuracy when an officer discharges his or her weapon. Keep in mind these are people who are trained to shoot under pressure situations, not the average citizen.

    Using the movie theater as an example, not only was there imminent danger, there were people running in all directions as well as smoke and darkness. To believe an average person with a pistol would have stopped this massacre is Hollywood fantasy. Could they have? Potentially, but it seems as if the probability is pretty unlikely.

    I believe people have the right to guns and if you want to own them, have at it. Please, however, don’t tell me I am safer because you have a gun on your hip. Statistics say you are as likely to shoot me as the bad guy. If I am in distress, please save your bullets.— Terry F. Madden is a sales engineer with an automation company in Grand Rapids. Contact him at tmadden17@gmail.com.


    Your gun doesn
    Last edited by theskunk; October 2nd, 2012 at 01:47 PM.


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Arborigine's Avatar
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    Where did you find this trash?
    I don't always have nothing to say, but when I do, I post it on Facebook.

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    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    I don't 100% disagree... I feel safer with my gun, but you I ain't so sure about (except maybe Tangle). Where he misses the mark (pun totally intended) is when he implies that cops are better shots than "the average citizen" because they are "trained to shoot under pressure situations". I'd be curious to see the statistics on shootings by "average citizens" (legal, no gang-banger statistics, please) compared to the police shootings.
    Caertaker, darbo and nerdyvirgin like this.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
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    "If I am in distress, please save your bullets". No problem, I wouldn't put my legal butt on the line for a stranger. My sidearm is for my family and myself. Its not my job to rescue anybody.
    RichB70, FTG-05 and nerdyvirgin like this.

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    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Remind me, when Terry F. Madden jumps behind me as the shooting starts, to...throw him at my assailants!
    BigStick likes this.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

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    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    I heard a conversation lately where someone was taking about banning assault weapons. I mentioned that during the Aurora shooting the assailants assault rifle jammed and was not used. The reply was..." Imagine how many more people would have died if it hadn't jammed" reinforcing the need to ban the unused weapon.
    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

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    I went to the original piece appearing in the Holland Sentinel to respond directly, but the number of tracking apps I had to allow in order to register hit 33 before I shut it down. At any rate, I don't carry to make Terry safer. His LEO statistics are apples to oranges, at best, and every assertion he made is easily refutable.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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    I guess he's missing the basic premise behind "self" defense. I carry to protect myself and my loved ones. I most certainly don't carry to protect him. If he wants to walk around at the mercy of anyone who might do him harm fine by me... It would take a heck of a specific scenario for me to risk my life by intervening for a third party.

    He is about as right as not about the Colorado shooting being a bad place for someone who was carrying to intervene. Not that I'd be against anyone doing what they thought they had to to protect themselves; it's just a very bad situation from a tactical perspective and it would have been a difficult scenario for someone who trains regularly. I'm guessing that a fair amount of concealed carry holders do not train regularly, if they train ever. I know I carried for years without taking any actual classes on defensive handgunning, low light tactics or anything else. I do now though and I know I wouldn't have wanted to be in that situation.
    Brad426 likes this.

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    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    He is correct my gun does not make him safer, and it never will. I would gladly watch the wolves feed on his sheepish self. As rigel said mine is for my family and I.
    BigJon


    "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" ~ Mark Twain

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    Senior Member Array theskunk's Avatar
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    Two 'Yutes' hit an internet cafe in Ocala fl with a shotgun and grandpa puts three caps in their ass









    Florida Internet Cafe Robbery ends with Assailants Shot and Running for Dear Life! - YouTube

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    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    That's an awesome video.
    minimalbrat and nerdyvirgin like this.
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    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rigel42 View Post
    "If I am in distress, please save your bullets". No problem, I wouldn't put my legal butt on the line for a stranger. My sidearm is for my family and myself. Its not my job to rescue anybody.
    Glad we can count on you!

    If anyone sees me in danger of life or limb, Please shoot the ........
    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

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    Senior Member Array 031131's Avatar
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    anyone ever hear of a statician?

    these people are capable of twisting any numbers to say whatever the person that is paying them wants them to say. I don't believe statistics to be very accurate. That isn't to say it doesn't happen, I'm sure it does, I just don't like statistics.

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    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 031131 View Post
    anyone ever hear of a statician?

    these people are capable of twisting any numbers to say whatever the person that is paying them wants them to say. I don't believe statistics to be very accurate. That isn't to say it doesn't happen, I'm sure it does, I just don't like statistics.
    63.6% of all statistics are made up.
    rammerjammer likes this.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
    Clint Eastwood

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    Distinguished Member Array Ghettokracker71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rigel42 View Post
    "If I am in distress, please save your bullets". No problem, I wouldn't put my legal butt on the line for a stranger. My sidearm is for my family and myself. Its not my job to rescue anybody.
    Yep! I don't carry for YOU. I carry for me and my family.


    "To blame a gun for a mans decision is to foolishly attribute free will to an inanimate object"- Colion Noir.

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